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Posted on 4/15/14 at 6:45 am to TigerTatorTots
quote:
What happened in Waco? I was 5 at the time and have never heard of it.
Not knocking you, but I find this very very disturbing...
Posted on 4/15/14 at 6:46 am to TigerTatorTots
Can you insert the name David Koresh and the word Waco into your browser?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 6:48 am to DosManos
quote:
Some think the govt supplied the kool-aid for Jim Jones as well.
MK-Ultra
Posted on 4/15/14 at 6:49 am to Cooter Davenport
It was cs gas...hundreds of canisters of it. There were documented deaths back in the 80s from cs gas use, yet they used it, knowing children were there. Atf agents were undercover and target practiced with koresh in the days leading up to the raid. After the raid, he asked to speak to one of those agents. He knew they were undercover and still went shooting with them. This is on recording. Pictures and video the gov made went missing. Two people were ultimately fired, only to be rehired with backpay and their records expunged. Agents had multiple opportunities to arrest koresh alone, away from the compound in the weeks before the raid. Atf had upcoming appropriations hearings and had invited media to the raid. Likely to make a big spectacle about seizing all those bad guns to prove why they needed more money. Watch waco:rulea of engagement if you want to learn more. Its on youtub and i linked it with the 60th post in the other thread. Also look at the waco page on hardylaw.net. it has alot of info.
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 6:50 am
Posted on 4/15/14 at 7:32 am to Alahunter
Waco was insanely fricked up. In summary...
The gov was in the right at the beginning. The branch dividians had stockpiled a bunch of weapons and were sorta Looney tune doomsday extremists.
However, the government fricked up by trying to raid a heavily armed though peaceful group and compound.
No one knows who shot first, but when the gov decided to come in guns out and ready to start a firefight, only one thing was going to happen which is people on both sides were going to die.
Once blood of federal agents was spilled (really due to the governments decision to spill blood in the first place), public perception was on the side of the government which caused the government to take a heavy handed approach.
The government was primarily responsible for escalating the situation because public perception was on their side. The atf and federal agents mindset shifted more toward revenge rather than diffusing the situation. The branch dividians eventually realized this and the real possibility they were all going to die and started to just want a way out.
The government did not want a trial and the agents wanted revenge. Eventually they took the actions they did which was almost certain to result in the death of everyone in the compound. It essentially became an execution by fire for two reasons.. the government did not want a trial. They escalated the situation from the start and got their own men killed. The decision makers did not want to answer for their decisions. Second, public perception was on their side and most of the public wanted the situation over and handled. The public shares some blame but the public didn't have all the facts at the time either.
The gov was in the right at the beginning. The branch dividians had stockpiled a bunch of weapons and were sorta Looney tune doomsday extremists.
However, the government fricked up by trying to raid a heavily armed though peaceful group and compound.
No one knows who shot first, but when the gov decided to come in guns out and ready to start a firefight, only one thing was going to happen which is people on both sides were going to die.
Once blood of federal agents was spilled (really due to the governments decision to spill blood in the first place), public perception was on the side of the government which caused the government to take a heavy handed approach.
The government was primarily responsible for escalating the situation because public perception was on their side. The atf and federal agents mindset shifted more toward revenge rather than diffusing the situation. The branch dividians eventually realized this and the real possibility they were all going to die and started to just want a way out.
The government did not want a trial and the agents wanted revenge. Eventually they took the actions they did which was almost certain to result in the death of everyone in the compound. It essentially became an execution by fire for two reasons.. the government did not want a trial. They escalated the situation from the start and got their own men killed. The decision makers did not want to answer for their decisions. Second, public perception was on their side and most of the public wanted the situation over and handled. The public shares some blame but the public didn't have all the facts at the time either.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:13 am to CamdenTiger
quote:
It was like James Jones, except the Gov't supplied the koolaid, in the end.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:45 am to TigerTatorTots
Waco was a totally different situation in some aspects. I think this is more similar to Ruby Ridge in some aspects.
The federal government is over-stepping its bounds.
The federal government is over-stepping its bounds.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:47 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
Some think the govt supplied the kool-aid for Jim Jones as well.
MK-Ultra
Yep. There's a conspiracy that says it was one big CIA run experiment or something like that. I think the land in Guyana was once owned by the CIA or something like that.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:48 am to willthezombie
quote:
Baylor girls take it in the butt to save their virginity for marriage.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 8:52 am to CITWTT
quote:Whats the point of TD then? 100% of threads can have answers found by searching google. There is no fun in that.
Can you insert the name David Koresh and the word Waco into your browser?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:10 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
You left off the part where they immediately bulldozed the scene afterward to dispose of the evidence.
It was Bill Clinton / Janet Reno flexing the fascism at the expense of eighty something innocent people. There was no reason for the raid in the first place other than ATF was up for another bump in funding the next week and wanted footage of them in ninja costumes taking down a place they knew had a lot of guns they could then put on display. That's why they had reporters there to video it and that's also how the Davidians found out they were coming and got ready for them. There was ZERO evidence to support there being even a single illegal weapon in that compound prior to the raid. It was illegal from the beginning so the only way it was gonna end was with the evidence burned and crushed to dust in a landfill.
It was Bill Clinton / Janet Reno flexing the fascism at the expense of eighty something innocent people. There was no reason for the raid in the first place other than ATF was up for another bump in funding the next week and wanted footage of them in ninja costumes taking down a place they knew had a lot of guns they could then put on display. That's why they had reporters there to video it and that's also how the Davidians found out they were coming and got ready for them. There was ZERO evidence to support there being even a single illegal weapon in that compound prior to the raid. It was illegal from the beginning so the only way it was gonna end was with the evidence burned and crushed to dust in a landfill.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:13 am to TigerTatorTots
Here's a nice video of a tank crashing into the compound and shooting fire from a flamethrower. The government did this to its own people.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 4/15/14 at 10:57 am to Cooter Davenport
Did you ever consider that when an airplane crashes the government agency immediately steps, in ropes of the area, and meticulously goes through the wreakage, searching for clues. But when there is a disaster like Ruby Ridge, Waco, or Oklahoma City, they move in and bulldoze the wreakage as soon as possible.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 12:15 pm to TigerTatorTots
David korresh dis some short bus shite. Pissed off govt. Janet Reno dropped tha hammer. Korresh and most of his peeps are ghosts now. Along with a few agents kia
Posted on 4/15/14 at 12:55 pm to thermal9221
David Koresh was an idiot. If all the idiots in America deserve to die there will only be two of us left. And I'm not to sure about you.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 1:38 pm to TigerTatorTots
My college friend from Sulphur was one of the ATF guys killed on the famous video where you see them shooting thru the roof from inside.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:36 am to GeeOH
Bringing this one back from the dead because I was looking into Seventh Day Adventists this weekend (live near their big college) and came across how the Davidians were linked to them.
Watched a bunch of youtube of raw footage/'99 congressional hearings/documentaries favoring both sides and such.
I pretty much just remembered the media narrative from it when I was growing up. Cult crazies burning themselves to death after killing a bunch of feds. Crazy how much different the narrative is now. The FLIR videos really opened my eyes. I play with FLIR all the time for work and have to deal with solar reflection screwing up my readings, those weren't freaking solar reflections...
The questioning of Reno is classic, still can't believe we had Delta in there and sent a guy to jail for over 12 years that wasn't even on site. Just at a gun show.
Probably won't get any answer from this, but would love to get one.
Did you ever talk to his family about it? Seeing that one guy chuck at least one grenade in there and fire indiscriminately into a room his friends had just went in, being able to hear other feds yell at him that there were friendly forces in the room was disturbing. Was there a different story given to his family?
Was he the guy that shot himself in the leg going up the ladder? LeBleu, I think.
Watched a bunch of youtube of raw footage/'99 congressional hearings/documentaries favoring both sides and such.
I pretty much just remembered the media narrative from it when I was growing up. Cult crazies burning themselves to death after killing a bunch of feds. Crazy how much different the narrative is now. The FLIR videos really opened my eyes. I play with FLIR all the time for work and have to deal with solar reflection screwing up my readings, those weren't freaking solar reflections...
The questioning of Reno is classic, still can't believe we had Delta in there and sent a guy to jail for over 12 years that wasn't even on site. Just at a gun show.
quote:
My college friend from Sulphur was one of the ATF guys killed on the famous video where you see them shooting thru the roof from inside.
Probably won't get any answer from this, but would love to get one.
Did you ever talk to his family about it? Seeing that one guy chuck at least one grenade in there and fire indiscriminately into a room his friends had just went in, being able to hear other feds yell at him that there were friendly forces in the room was disturbing. Was there a different story given to his family?
Was he the guy that shot himself in the leg going up the ladder? LeBleu, I think.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 9:46 am to TigerTatorTots
Janet Reno was concerned about the children living inside the compound. So, she sent in some tanks to kill them.
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