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Started By
Message
re: $9.6M "stolen" by "cheating" at casino
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:50 am to barry
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:50 am to barry
quote:
If it's one instance, then it's not a big deal. If you systematically exploit this, then you should have to give it back.
The trouble for me is that the casinos exploit things to their own advantage and fleece people like sheep. I don't really care that someone exploits them for a change. They've got arse loads of money to buy the very best and ensure there's no flaws.
I seriously don't spend much money with them. Only on rare occasions will I sit down and play, and when I do I have no illusion that I'm going to win big or even win at all for that matter because I know the odds are so ridiculously in their favor that it's a joke. I'm pissing it away. That's why I don't go much at all, but it's really difficult for me to have sympathy for them either when them losing for a change comes as a direct result of their own damn problem.
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Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:55 am to twoliter
I wish I could sit on the jury. Not Guilty!
This post was edited on 4/12/14 at 10:57 am
Posted on 4/12/14 at 10:59 am to twoliter
I give you an official dealer price list. My price list has a flaw you spot. A widget costing $18,000 on the previous price list now has a typo showing a price of $1,800.00.
You send in a purchase order. Order entry checks it against the current pricing and sees $1,800.00. The order is entered and shipped. At some point, the flaw is pointed out and your order is spotted.
We contact you, tell you that was a typo and either pay the correct price or send the widget back.
If you have no intention of ever buying from us again, you tell us to frick off. It isn't your job to point out our error.
You send in a purchase order. Order entry checks it against the current pricing and sees $1,800.00. The order is entered and shipped. At some point, the flaw is pointed out and your order is spotted.
We contact you, tell you that was a typo and either pay the correct price or send the widget back.
If you have no intention of ever buying from us again, you tell us to frick off. It isn't your job to point out our error.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:12 am to shutterspeed
quote:
Casinos are racist against intelligent people.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:19 am to HubbaBubba
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:30 am to twoliter
What if there had been another player at the table who lost 9 million while this defective deck was being used? Would the house pay them back? Hell no.
I have worked in the gaming industry for 10 years. If the deck was defective that is the casino's responsibility to catch it.
I have worked in the gaming industry for 10 years. If the deck was defective that is the casino's responsibility to catch it.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:40 am to twoliter
Yeah by the casino's logic the casino too cheats every single person who is in the lifetime red at the casino, which is the vast majority of patrons. No casino would cheat if the odds weren't purposely stacked in casino's favor.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 11:47 am to McLemore
The house has one job. Provide a game that is on the up and up. They should be embarrassed to even admit this publicly. Smart move would be to just write it off and make sure it doesn't happen again. They look silly suing someone for their mistake.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 12:38 pm to TIGERSTORM
Posted on 4/12/14 at 12:52 pm to Tallerthansaban
If the dealer was doing something he wasn't supposed to, they're fricked.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 1:46 pm to twoliter
Is this one of those things where you come into my house and steal all my stuff and it's totally "legal" and my fault because I left my door unlocked?
Posted on 4/12/14 at 1:52 pm to Fenster
quote:
Is this one of those things where you come into my house and steal all my stuff and it's totally "legal" and my fault because I left my door unlocked?
Is this one of those questions that are serious?
1. The casino had no problem with him coming in. In fact, as you may be aware, casinos actually prefer that people come in.
2. He didn't steal anything.
3. He obviously has a much more keen sense of observation than the casino did and he used it to his advantage. That is not stealing.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:22 pm to Fenster
quote:
Is this one of those things where you come into my house and steal all my stuff and it's totally "legal" and my fault because I left my door unlocked?
no
the casino's edge is imperfect information + a game structure that favors the house
all that this system did was decrease the amount of "hidden" information
is being able to read a player in poker cheating? same concept
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:24 pm to twoliter
Its against the rules that are established by casinos, so its cheating. Similar to if IRS refunds you $100,000 by mistake, its illegal to keep it. Even though its their fault, you can't take advantage, legally... And yes, I think its bullshite.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:34 pm to jose canseco
quote:Not following your line of thinking as a good example, so let me improve your example for you:
s against the rules that are established by casinos, so its cheating. Similar to if IRS refunds you $100,000 by mistake, its illegal to keep it. Even though its their fault, you can't take advantage, legally... And yes, I think its bullshite.
The IRS collect taxes. You find a loophole. You pay less in taxes. The IRS says, "That's not fair. You circumvented the 'system' by exploiting a weakness we didn't know about, or didn't reveal to you. Give us the money, anyway."
THAT would be a more fair representative example.
This post was edited on 4/12/14 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:37 pm to Fenster
quote:
Fenster $9.6M "stolen" by "cheating" at casino Is this one of those things where you come into my house and steal all my stuff and it's totally "legal" and my fault because I left my door unlocked?
Uh no. Bad move by casino. 9.6 mill in the grand scheme is nothing. Hire the guy to host tournaments and ad campaign promoting his big win. Everyone thinks they can win like him, cash cow. Played like this casino looks like a scorned bitch, players think no way to win even if you do and stay away in droves.
Or you could take him to a back room and ask him what hand he uses then Pound it with a hammer.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:41 pm to jose canseco
It is also illegal for the casino to use that deck. Any player that played that night could file a complaint to the gaming commission. They could ask for any losses to be paid back or discipline for the employees involved. That is why it is so stupid for casino to open this can of worms. They admit that they used a faulty deck.
There would have been a number of red flags that were ignored by the casino. Ivey would have bet small amounts most of the time. Occasionally when he sees the card he wants he would bet huge. That is the number one red flag to any floor man or dealer. They likely ignored all the red flags because they were in aww that it was Phil Ivey.
There would have been a number of red flags that were ignored by the casino. Ivey would have bet small amounts most of the time. Occasionally when he sees the card he wants he would bet huge. That is the number one red flag to any floor man or dealer. They likely ignored all the red flags because they were in aww that it was Phil Ivey.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:47 pm to Tallerthansaban
I just dont see how they could wait until 9.6 mil later to think something was up. I mean, the pit boss mustve been floating around that table the whole time and thought the turning of cards was fishy
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:47 pm to twoliter
The casinos were far more successful in their lobbying efforts in New Jersey to make stuff like this illegal than in Vegas. Back when the mob ran things as late as the 70's they got lots of these laws passed and once the major resorts took over of course they saw no need to overturn them.
In Atlantic City, what Ivy did is illegal. So is card counting. I fully agree that it should not be illegal, but that's how the law reads up there.
In Atlantic City, what Ivy did is illegal. So is card counting. I fully agree that it should not be illegal, but that's how the law reads up there.
Posted on 4/12/14 at 2:57 pm to foshizzle
After the second time Phil changed to the big bet and won the floor should have made a dealer and deck change. They should have taken that deck a scrutinized it. They should have had every floor and camera watching him. The casino failed.
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