I didn't say it doesn't happen and I already said if it does happen then the police officer is being an a-hole.

I just said what happened to me every time I've been stopped by the police and asked for my identification.

quote:
What if all they got was "young black male"? Or, "young white male"? How good does the description need to be?

let's go with that. Let's say your wife/girlfriend/daughter was just raped before you arrived home and the only description she gave you was that it was a young white male. You immediately call the police and tell them what happened and give them the description. The police arrive within minutes and detain 20 young white men who were found walking down the street in a two block area.

Would you want the police to detain all of those young white men so that your wife/girlfriend/daughter can look at all of them and see if one of them is the young white man who raped her?

quote:
I mean, your description example is very specific. That wouldn't be the norm.

How do you know a detailed description like the one I gave isn't the norm?

Although I didn't rob the bank, I fit that specific description of the bank robber.

Are you saying if 5 minutes after the bank was robbed the police see me walking down the street only a block away from the bank, the police don't have enough reasonable suspicion that I may be the bank robber in order to stop me and ask me to identify myself?

quote:
Ax murders are rare but they're still illegal.

Well, if the police have no physical description of the ax murderer but they see someone walking down the street only a block from where the murder occurred who is holding a bloody ax do the police have enough reasonable suspicion to stop that person and ask them to identify themselves?

quote:
And hell. We had a very long thread on THIS board when cops(I think in colorado) stopped EVERY LAST SOUL at a particular intersection and detained every car there for over an hour so they could check EVERY car on a phone tip that the robber MIGHT be in that area.

So what?

You discussed that specific incident in that specific thread.

We're discussing a different specific incident in this thread.

quote:
I don't even understand the "false name" line because how exactly would the cop even know if I gave them a false name.

If you were a cop and stopped someone because you had reasonable suspicion they committed a crime then after you asked them to identify themselves they told you their name was "Mickey Mouse" would you reasonably suspect that they gave you a false name?

If they gave you a false name that was more difficult to suspect was a false name then they may get away with it if you can't require them to show a valid ID with their name and picture on it but there may be a legitimate reasonable reason why the police officer might suspect that they gave a false name. I'm not going to try to figure out every possible reasonable reason why a police officer may suspect that a person gave a false name.

quote:
You said earlier, I could just give them my REAL name. If, at that point, they don't have anything on me for whatever the stopped me for AT THAT MOMENT, then I should be on my way.

That's correct.

However, if after getting your name they put it through the system and it comes back that there is a warrant for your arrest or that you have been previously arrested for the same crime and they reasonable suspect you committed a crime then they can detain you for further questioning or maybe even arrest you.

quote:
Of course, if they have nothing on me, they shouldn't have stopped me in the first place.

If they do not have a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime then I agree with you.

However, if they do have a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime then I disagree with you.

quote:
If they have something on me, they don't need my name and if they don't have something on me, I shouldn't have to give my name. SIMPLE.

It's not that simple.

If they have a reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime then run your true name though the system and it comes back that there is a warrant for your arrest then they can arrest you on the spot.

However, if you want to refuse to identify yourself claiming your 5th amendment right against self incrimination because you know there is a warrant out for your arrest then I can understand why you don't want to give them your true name.

That is a constitutional question the SCOTUS has not made a ruling on yet so maybe you could be the case that the SCOTUS can take and rule on that specific question.

quote:
Back to your "they could stop all 20" line. Really? For how long? I mean, my ID isn't going to tell them if I robbed the bank in question and neither is anyone else's. So. Are cops supposed to be allowed to just sit there holding all 20 of you until they're happy?

I would have no problem with the police detaining all of you long enough for the eyewitnesses to the bank robbery to be brought to where all of you are being detained and given the opportunity to identify whether the bank robber is one of you.

Damn, this Strawberry Cheesecake ice cream sure is good!

This post was edited on 3/6/14 at 4:22 pm