re: PTA's "The Master"

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This is what makes it a terrible film. Story should always be important regardless of the acting, theme, message, etc. Story is what drives the plot and the movie.

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Tell that to the Gravity crew going apeshit over the movie even though admitting the story isn't compelling enough to watchagain. Of course many of those same people attacked Avatar for no story and shiny effects.

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This is what makes it a terrible film. Story should always be important regardless of the acting, theme, message, etc. Story is what drives the plot and the movie.

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I could not disagree more. It's a difference of opinion but people on here are very divided on that assertion. I don't want to speak for LoveThatMoney but I believe he shares that opinion with you and it has come up before; pretty sure it was a discussion regarding Malick.

ETA:

Found it.

This thread: Defending Ron Howard

Baloo:

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But what I like best about Ron Howard is this: the guy can tell a story. So many guys working today are so adept with deconstruction and symbolism and all that. But they can’t do something as simple as tell a friggin’ story. It’s such a basic, foundational skill that even some great directors lack (I love David Lynch, but that guy couldn’t tell a coherent story if his life depended on it). And at the end of the day, film is just another method of storytelling.

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There's a large difference between the story not being the focus and being unable to tell a story at all. I totally agree that storytelling is not always the focus, but I do object when filmmakers completely disregard the need for story at all. It's like having a film without sound.

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LoveThatMoney

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So many people in the industry and even this board don't grasp this. They think guys like PTA or Malick are great directors, but they are painters more than anything. They create visually stunning pieces of cinema. And that's great and I can appreciate that, but a movie is, like you said, about telling a story. If what you are presenting to the audience is boring, disjointed, convoluted, or anything similar, you have probably failed as a director.

Ron Howard is the Stephen King of filmmaking. He has produced some really pretty great pieces, but he doesn't always blow your doors off. He's just solid. There is brilliance in his steadiness and consistency.

His movies have all the hallmarks of what makes good movies: rich characters, engaging plots, well thought out settings.

And then some of his movies have all the hallmarks of what makes great movies: deep meaning, an absorbing recreation of moments in time, symbolism and themes that resonate, cinematography that moves you.

Anyone that thinks Ron Howard isn't a good director, to me, doesn't understand what a good director is supposed to do.

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You don't think a movie is about telling a story? What do you think it's about?

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Fair point. I would agree that PTA is better than Malick at telling a story, but I would stop before saying he is a great storyteller. He has great characters in his films, but his editing choices often make the movie feel disjointed. The Master, I think, is a prime example of this. I don't think he knew how he wanted to finish it, so he jumped to a time in the future and just ended it.

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1. Those are two great movie board posters who I really respect.
2. I completely disagree.
3. My rebuttal: THEME.
4. Story-centric films exclude the following: surrealism, fantasy, absurdity, experimentation, expressionism, existentialism, and more.
5. The story limits the film elsewhere.
6. Story can help explore concepts. There are concepts that can be explored without story.
7. Manipulation. Feelings or emotions stemming from images and sounds don't insist on a story to delay a message.
8. "Nothing happened" is a cop-out. Something happened.
9. Double standard? Does this also apply to the written (poems, novels), the spoken (stories, tales), the heard (song lyrics, lyric-less songs)? They don't require Ron Howard-ish stories.
10. Can how a book is written define it in the same manner that how a film is presented defines it? (Faulkner-eqsue vs. Lynch-eqsue/Malick-esque)

Also, I recommend watching Upstream Color to really see what I mean; directed by & starring the guy who directed & starred in Primer.