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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14374 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


Your question is overly broad. The answer depends on one's perspective, and everyone has a different perspective. The person who becomes eligible for expanded Medicare in one of the states that has elected that option will have a different view of the economics than someone who has his work hours reduced by an employer seeking to avoid providing health insurance to employees. Similarly, the answers of doctors, hospitals and insurance companies will also be different. The law will create opportunities for some while at the same time creating burdens for others. On a global basis I think the cost of the burdens imposed will exceed the benefits of the opportunities created.





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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31774 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

quote:


I had an HSA plan with $3,000 deductible that I loved (I'm 28). I was using it as a stealth IRA for investing.





Using it now.

$2000 deductible, $4000 family. Maxing it out to $5270/year with another $2K from my employer.


About the same for me. I love it. I last went to a doctor in 2003 also, so it is PERFECT and makes me happy.






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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


I work in healthcare admin at one of the largest hospitals in the country. I did a considerable amount of my undergrad and graduate work debating the pros and cons of nationalized healthcare.

There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about Obamacare. I notice a number of folks here blaming Obamacare for decisions their employers made. In many cases Obamacare has been a convenient excuse for employers to reduce their benefit expenditures on their employees.

The argument for nationalized healthcare is that the single payer system as it exists elsewhere is more efficient in terms of dollars spent to deliver care. This is an undeniable fact which is not up to debate. The data also suggests that people in countries with nationalized healthcare generally live longer than Americans so even quality is difficult to debate. Where the debate exists is whether or not nationalized care is as efficent in terms of timeliness and whether this will meet the expectations of America's immediate gratification oriented society.

Will Physicians and hospitals make less? The data from overseas says yes.

Will hospitals survive? We survived the DRA under Reagan and prospered and will do it again.

Will MD's bemoan Obamacare as driving MD's to quit medicine? Yes they will in spite of the fact that the 2013 graduating class of newly minted Physicians was the largest in American history and 2014 will pump out even more.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 10:33 am


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ell_13
USA Fan
Alex Box
Member since Apr 2013
16585 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

people in countries with nationalized healthcare generally live longer than Americans
You cannot definitely attribute this to healthcare. Most of the people in those countries live healthier lifestyles.
quote:

the 2013 graduating class of newly minted Physicians was the largest in American history
But none are going into family medicine. Most will be specialists which are expensive/lucrative. This will not help with the new system.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 10:55 am


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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

But none are going into family medicine


This statement is true in a historic context but it is changing, there has been a renewed interest in Primary Care now that funding to that area is increasing while some specialities are decreasing. This is also part of why you are seeing hospitals buying out independent GP's.






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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31774 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

I work in healthcare admin at one of the largest hospitals in the country. I did a considerable amount of my undergrad and graduate work debating the pros and cons of nationalized healthcare.

There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about Obamacare. I notice a number of folks here blaming Obamacare for decisions their employers made. In many cases Obamacare has been a convenient excuse for employers to reduce their benefit expenditures on their employees.

The argument for nationalized healthcare is that the single payer system as it exists elsewhere is more efficient in terms of dollars spent to deliver care. This is an undeniable fact which is not up to debate. The data also suggests that people in countries with nationalized healthcare generally live longer than Americans so even quality is difficult to debate. Where the debate exists is whether or not nationalized care is as efficent in terms of timeliness and whether this will meet the expectations of America's immediate gratification oriented society.

Will Physicians and hospitals make less? The data from overseas says yes.

Will hospitals survive? We survived the DRA under Reagan and prospered and will do it again.

Will MD's bemoan Obamacare as driving MD's to quit medicine? Yes they will in spite of the fact that the 2013 graduating class of newly minted Physicians was the largest in American history and 2014 will pump out even more.


An educated opinion. Finally.

1. Makes sense that it will be more efficent from an economic standpoint.

That was the #1 goal of Obamacare.

2. Doctors and hospitals make less. Fine, good, don't much care. They can take a haircut, most make plenty as it is and if they don't like it, go do something else. Healthcare costs are absurd as it is, even for a short 10 minute doctor visit.

3.
quote:

2013 graduating class of newly minted Physicians was the largest in American history and 2014 will pump out even more.
Surprise, surprise.

Sorta reminds me of the flat tax debate. People always say, "lets have a flat tax" or "I support the flat tax". But they have no idea what they are really advocating. I did my big post graduate study (similar to a thesis) on the pro and cons of a flat tax in the U.S., then gave a presentation on it. The overwhelming conclusion of my research was that the U.S. would NEVER have a flat tax and if people fully understood all the ancillary consequences of switching from our current system to a flat tax, their would be very few actual supporters.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 2:19 pm


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ell_13
USA Fan
Alex Box
Member since Apr 2013
16585 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


Nothing about your post was informative. It was just you nodding your head. Details? Links?





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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31774 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


Back at ya lil fella.

Your post sucked. Do better next time.






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saderade
New Orleans Saints Fan
America's City
Member since Jul 2005
20787 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

The argument for nationalized healthcare is that the single payer system as it exists elsewhere is more efficient in terms of dollars spent to deliver care. This is an undeniable fact which is not up to debate.
Agreed
quote:

The data also suggests that people in countries with nationalized healthcare generally live longer than Americans so even quality is difficult to debate
You really have to look at demographics here- people in Canada and Europe are generally less obese and seem to have better diets than Americans. I saw more obese people in the Atlanta airport (on my way to Europe) than I did in a whole month traveling through 5 European countries. Our lower class citizens are incredibly unhealthy and most of them don't give a shite.
quote:

Will MD's bemoan Obamacare as driving MD's to quit medicine? Yes they will in spite of the fact that the 2013 graduating class of newly minted Physicians was the largest in American history and 2014 will pump out even more.
Well can you blame someone for being upset that they have worked their arse off through college, medical school, and residency to make peanuts being a PCP. The workload is going up with salaries going down.






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dewster
Maryland Fan
Tennessee
Member since Aug 2006
8693 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

Bottom line economics for our family.

We HAD (new plan starts in January) a Cadillac healthplan through husband's job.

Now we will be moved into $3000 deductible HSA/100% when we reach out of pocket $10 grand. Pre tax dollar contributed to HSA we can fund first year IIRC around 7 grand because we are over 55.


Very similar situation for me.

Ours is a $5000 deductable though, and my premiums actually went up by $40 per month per person for this reduction in coverage.

It won't be the end of the world so long as we don't have to visit the doctor until my HSA grows a bit.

Can't say that I'm very pleased with what I've experienced so far.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 3:37 pm


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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

Well can you blame someone for being upset that they have worked their arse off through college, medical school, and residency to make peanuts being a PCP. The workload is going up with salaries going down.


Its completely speculative on my part but I believe the future of primary care will look differently in the near future. More advanced practitioner roles like ARNP's and PA's working the front lines. MD's will be reserved for more complex cases and specialty work.

To be clear, I do sympathize with the plight of MD's and their student loan debts. The cost of college is another debate for another time. As for peanuts, an interesting article from the UK recently suggests that over a third of their nationalized PCP's are making upwards of $250K per year. There's a lot of folks that would be quite happy with those peanuts.






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ell_13
USA Fan
Alex Box
Member since Apr 2013
16585 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


I argued points that moved the conversation forward. You mention consequences in a study then don't even list them.

He stated that there are more medical students in grad school than ever before. The same can be said for many fields since so many are expected to go to college now. Also, as I mentioned, these future graduates are mostly interested in a specific concentration. Although he added that trend is changing, I would like to see where he gets that information.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 5:50 pm


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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


LINK

Here's a link to an independent organization outlining the increases to Medicaid PCP reimbursement. The reimbursement will finally match Medicare. I don't have the CMS data at my fingertips at the moment, I'll dig it up... In short, the ACA has made changes that directly benefit PCP's..



This post was edited on 9/27 at 6:02 pm


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ell_13
USA Fan
Alex Box
Member since Apr 2013
16585 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


I too have links that I can't get to at the moment. Thanks.





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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

I too have links that I can't get to at the moment. Thanks.


I'm sorry I didn't realize this conversation had digressed away from intellectual banter. My apologies...



This post was edited on 9/27 at 6:07 pm


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ell_13
USA Fan
Alex Box
Member since Apr 2013
16585 posts
 Online 

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm in bfe and lucky to get any signal on my iPad. It's taking minutes for my posts to submit.

ETA: I leave that stuff for the rant, OT, and poly board. Money is serious shite.



This post was edited on 9/27 at 6:16 pm


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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14374 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


quote:

1. Makes sense that it will be more efficent from an economic standpoint. That was the #1 goal of Obamacare.
You are a liar. The stated #1 goal of Obamacare was to provide health insurance to the claimed 43 million Americans who did not have health insurance. Efficiency was never a goal, or we wouldn't have gotten this abortion of a plan that has proven impossible to implement with 4 years of preparation.






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wiltznucs
South Florida Fan
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
7013 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


No worries, no offense taken...





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Ziggy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Ponchatoula, LA
Member since Oct 2007
20469 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?








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matthew25
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Jun 2012
3274 posts

re: What are the economics of Affordable Care Act?


Poodle: how many of your clients have reduced employee hours to under 30 to meet the requirements of the ACA?





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