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Clock and Helmet issue at the end of the first half
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:35 am
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:35 am
Ok, here it is:
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout. Also, if the ref determines that his helmet was pulled off, none of this applies - that is to stop the other team from just pulling off guys' helmets all the time and making them go out for a play. If a player's helmet comes off and he doesn't go out of the game, the team is charged a timeout (unless the clock stops anyway). And if the team doesn't have a timeout, there is a 10-second runoff.
So, in the game the other night, the refs screwed up at first. Collins' helmet came off and he stayed in the next play. Since LSU did not have a timeout, they at first thought that the 10 second runoff was necessary. Then they huddled up and figured out that the play where his helmet came off was an incomplete pass - so the clocked stopped. So, even though he lost his helmet, he could play the next play without a timeout being taken. So they made the right call - just a bit late.
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was.
Anyway, the issue was that the refs realized the clock had stopped anyway so no 10 second runoff was necessary. So they did the right thing and got the teams back out there and played the next play.
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout. Also, if the ref determines that his helmet was pulled off, none of this applies - that is to stop the other team from just pulling off guys' helmets all the time and making them go out for a play. If a player's helmet comes off and he doesn't go out of the game, the team is charged a timeout (unless the clock stops anyway). And if the team doesn't have a timeout, there is a 10-second runoff.
So, in the game the other night, the refs screwed up at first. Collins' helmet came off and he stayed in the next play. Since LSU did not have a timeout, they at first thought that the 10 second runoff was necessary. Then they huddled up and figured out that the play where his helmet came off was an incomplete pass - so the clocked stopped. So, even though he lost his helmet, he could play the next play without a timeout being taken. So they made the right call - just a bit late.
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was.
Anyway, the issue was that the refs realized the clock had stopped anyway so no 10 second runoff was necessary. So they did the right thing and got the teams back out there and played the next play.
9
Posted on 9/3/13 at 10:42 am to Buda
quote:
Then, to confuse the issue even more, Les told the sideline reporter that what the refs determined was that Collins' helmet was pulled off - which also would have had the same effect - there would be no 10 second runoff. That was not the issue - but you can see how that would be what Miles thought it was
So you are saying that Les was confused.
Water is wet.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:04 am to Buda
Should have been "illegal hand to the face" on the defense anyway...
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:19 am to Buda
quote:
If a player loses his helmet during a play, he must come out the game or the team must call a time out - unless there is a clock stoppage anyway (like out of bounds or incomplete pass) in which case he can play the next play without having to take a timeout.
no that doesnt sound right. he has to come out regardless i think. the only way he can stay in is if they take a timeout.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:26 am to Buda
If you go back and watch, Collins helmet was taken off by the defender. So Les was correct with his half time statement. 
Posted on 9/3/13 at 11:39 am to Buda
The better question is this, they called a unsportsmanlike penalty on TCU, assessed them half the distance from the goal, but they said, replay 4th down, shouldn't that have been an automatic 1st down?
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:11 pm to Buda
I watched the replay on Sunday. What appeared to happen was TCU's #91 got his hand onto the bottom bar of Collins' facemask while rushing and pushed his helmet off. Should have been an illegal hands to the face call IMO. Seemed like the refs missed a lot of calls.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:14 pm to Buda
I actually do appreciate that explanation. Maybe it was just because I was pretty hammered in Cowboy Stadium on Saturday night...but I had no idea what the hell was going on at the time when TCU ran off of the field.
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:29 pm to Buda
Here is the rule, I don't see how there was no 10 second run off and the half over, unless the flag was a delayed flag for activity during the play, or unless there was a flag on the ground for illegal hands to face.
Even if there was an incomplete pass, the 10 second runoff is at the discretion of TCU if I am reading it correctly.
Rule 3-3-9 Helmet Comes Off—Timeout (New Article) ARTICLE 9. a. If during the down a player’s helmet comes completely off, other than as the direct result of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game clock will stop at the end of the down.
b. When the helmet coming off is the only reason for stopping the clock, the following conditions apply: 1. With one minute or more remaining in either half the play clock will be set at 25 seconds if the player is on offense and at 40 seconds if the player is on defense. The game clock will start on the referee’s signal.
2. If there is less than one minute in the half the opponent has the option of a 10- second subtraction. The play clock will be set at 25 seconds. If there is a 10-second subtraction the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. If there is no 10-second subtraction the game clock will start on the snap. The 10-second subtraction may be avoided by the use of a team timeout, if available. There is no option for a 10-second subtraction if helmets come off opposing players.
c. If the ball carrier’s helmet comes off as in paragraph a (above) the ball is dead (Rule 4-1-3-q). If the player is not the ball carrier the ball remains alive, but he must not continue to participate in the play beyond the immediate action in which he is engaged. Prolonged participation is a personal foul (Rule 9-1-17). By definition such a player is obviously out of the play (Rule 9-1-12- b).
d. A player who intentionally removes his helmet during the down commits a foul for unsportsmanlike conduct (Rule 9-2-1-a-1-i).
Even if there was an incomplete pass, the 10 second runoff is at the discretion of TCU if I am reading it correctly.
Rule 3-3-9 Helmet Comes Off—Timeout (New Article) ARTICLE 9. a. If during the down a player’s helmet comes completely off, other than as the direct result of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game clock will stop at the end of the down.
b. When the helmet coming off is the only reason for stopping the clock, the following conditions apply: 1. With one minute or more remaining in either half the play clock will be set at 25 seconds if the player is on offense and at 40 seconds if the player is on defense. The game clock will start on the referee’s signal.
2. If there is less than one minute in the half the opponent has the option of a 10- second subtraction. The play clock will be set at 25 seconds. If there is a 10-second subtraction the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. If there is no 10-second subtraction the game clock will start on the snap. The 10-second subtraction may be avoided by the use of a team timeout, if available. There is no option for a 10-second subtraction if helmets come off opposing players.
c. If the ball carrier’s helmet comes off as in paragraph a (above) the ball is dead (Rule 4-1-3-q). If the player is not the ball carrier the ball remains alive, but he must not continue to participate in the play beyond the immediate action in which he is engaged. Prolonged participation is a personal foul (Rule 9-1-17). By definition such a player is obviously out of the play (Rule 9-1-12- b).
d. A player who intentionally removes his helmet during the down commits a foul for unsportsmanlike conduct (Rule 9-2-1-a-1-i).
Posted on 9/3/13 at 12:32 pm to Buda
quote:
Collins' helmet came off and he stayed in the next play.
Wrong. Collins' helmet came off (as a result of an illegal hands to the face that was missed by the refs I might add) but the next play did not happen until all of the mess was resolved.
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