NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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ShortyRob
LSU Fan
Huntsville, AL
Member since Oct 2008
26534 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

Gotta keep those overpaid teachers down.
A lot of teachers ARE overpaid. Still others are underpaid. Tenure and automatic pay raises Magnify both of those problems.






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asurob1
Florida State Fan
On the edge of the galaxy
Member since May 2009
11168 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:


Actually the Florida educational system. Actually I dropped out of school to work so I could help support my disabled mom and 2 younger sisters


sob story

quote:

Got a GED so I could enroll in Community college, left after one year and started my own business.


SO you did depend on the public school system...

didn't you know public schools are part of the socialist government programs holy crap dude that makes you a commie.

quote:

Busted my arse for years and now I hire people with masters degrees to do tasks that aren't important enough for me to handle personally.


and out drops the enormous dick.

quote:

The only thing I got from the educational system is the desire to leave and stop wasting my time.


actually you got your GED. Even though dropped out to support your poor sick mom the public school system crammed just enough knowledge into your pea brain to let you pass the GED which allowed you to move forward in life and start your business.

What a terrible burden it must be for you to know that you had to depend on others to teach you how to read, write and do that math stuff.







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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
22725 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

A lot of teachers ARE overpaid. Still others are underpaid. Tenure and automatic pay raises Magnify both of those problems.


Agree, so why cut the pay of those teachers that go back to school and get master's degrees?






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Quentin Compson
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2013
3117 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

didn't you know public schools are part of the socialist government programs holy crap dude that makes you a commie.






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XKEnut
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
1066 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


I'm an old guy. My grandfather was a math prof. and head of that dept. at Miss. St. in the 20's. He was a good man, smart, and a West Point grad. In the late 20's the well known racist Theo. Bilbo was elected Governor. One of his first moves was to fire the faculties and leadership at State and Ole Miss. Both schools lost accreditation. My grandfather got the ax, this at the beginning of the Depression. He and his family suffered greatly for the next decade and his health failed. My mother never got past it.

That's why tenure rules were put in place, so fool politicians with an agenda can't destroy the system on a whim. End of sermon.






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Holden Caulfield
LSU Fan
Hanging with J.D.
Member since May 2008
6238 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


For every story about men like your grandfather unfairly losing their jobs there are literally thousands of other stories that begin and end with a bad teacher who can't be dismissed because of tenure.

Tenure, despite its original purpose, is little more than a shield for lazy and unqualified teachers to hang onto to a paycheck and benefits until they retire.






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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
8899 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

If I was a teacher, I work hard, I'm graduate my students, and the state takes away any reason to work hard. I move 100 miles over the state line where they reward good teaches

thread issue:
quote:

NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases

easy tenure thresholds and extra money for getting one of the lamest graduate degrees that exists (usually paid for by the state around here, IIRC) are not "reasons to work hard," idiot.



This post was edited on 8/3 at 8:56 am


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Volvagia
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
40547 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


Agree extensively about tenure.

Less so about the masters pay increase.






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BluegrassBelle
Kentucky Fan
Go home Mother Nature, you're drunk
Member since Nov 2010
41093 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


Getting rid of tenure is a good thing only if a state is realistic about the type of students teachers are teaching and being realistic about limitations on student performance due to factors outside of a teacher's control (i.e. lack of parental involvement).

Unfortunately most states aren't and continue to punish good young teachers by placing them in at-risk schools on their first assignment and then penalizing them for not meeting unrealistic benchmarks based on an utopian notion that all students are created equal and learn at the same pace.

Removing tenure is just a drop in the bucket and will continue to be ineffective if other major issues aren't addressed promptly.

ETA: And given that there's little room to advance in teaching beyond taking a job in administration, I'm not crazy about eliminating the incentive for teachers to further hone their craft through a masters' program.



This post was edited on 8/3 at 9:19 am


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goatmilker
New Orleans Saints Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
15861 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

sob story


Would have been better if he was a NC teacher eh?

My parents were both teachers so I can speak a bit to this issue despite your sly smart-ass taunts.

Tenure is a very good thing to get rid of. Period.

Reducing or eliminating any type of incentive to improve one's self in any career CAN be short sighted.
My father got his masters here in Florida and received a pay raise for it. Did it make him a better teacher? He never said so. I couldn't tell either(took two classes of his in middle school). You could be the best teacher in the state having never attended one day of college and also perhaps been the worst and needed that extra bit of education.







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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
8899 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

Reducing or eliminating any type of incentive to improve one's self in any career CAN be short sighted.

this is true, admittedly

that particular credential is a poor proxy for increased effectiveness/productivity though. but TBH, it doesn't deserve to be singled out for reform IMO - it's a symptom of a credentialing process that is shite to begin with.

ETA: but i still support dropping it. i just don't think it is gonna solve much by itself



This post was edited on 8/3 at 10:20 am


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Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
13127 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

SO you did depend on the public school system... 


didn't you know public schools are part of the socialist government programs holy crap dude that makes you a commie. 


What do you mean? I still had to pay for my own classes, and did that by working graveyard shifts shoveling orange peals and loading trucks in the freezer docks at Tropicana and picking up every hour of overtime they'd let me. And I left community college before finishing because it was a waste of my time and money.


quote:

actually you got your GED. Even though dropped out to support your poor sick mom the public school system crammed just enough knowledge into your pea brain to let you pass the GED which allowed you to move forward in life and start your business. What a terrible burden it must be for you to know that you had to depend on others to teach you how to read, write and do that math stuff. 



if you wanna say the GED was me depending on the public school system, well I can give you that. But giving credit to the school system for cramming enough knowledge in my brain to pass the GED is not telling the whole story. My aunt and uncle were both private school teachers, and I spent many afternoons learning from them. By age 7 I was doing multiplication and division, by 9 I was learning algebra.

I was given a 10 year old volume of Encyclopedia that my mom bought at a garage sale and whenever I was grounded to my room for misbehavior, I read it to entertain myself.
I was ahead of all my classmates and was bored out of my mind in school. My teachers would complain that I was not paying attention in class and that I was setting "a bad example for other students" by not doing their mindless homework and still getting perfect scores on exams. It became clear early on that they weren't concerned about educating me, they just wanted me to stop making their teaching methods look like a fricking joke.

I love knowledge, I love learning, and if I had gotten either of those out of public education, I never would have left early.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64236 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


Good, neither of the two should be automatic...


As for the pay increase for a Masters, if it is towards the education field, I have no problem with them getting an increase. The disclaimer should be that they have to be meeting the other standards too.






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Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
13127 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


double post


This post was edited on 8/3 at 11:45 am


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bluestem75
LSU Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2007
469 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


I'm a former Texas high school teacher.

Tenure should be hard to get. Period. What's wrong with raising the standard to achieve it instead of gutting it all together?

That being said, I have a real problem with the removal of teacher's due process. I have seen way too many administrators get rid of teachers they don't like through intimidation and harrassment. Teachers are seldom the problem in schools. Administrators who are too weak-minded and won't stand up to parents cause far more problems.

Teachers take the blame for everything that is wrong in schools. From experience, I can say that a student who won't learn is a student who won't learn. There was nothing I could do at that point. That still did not prevent administrators from begging me to pass that student in an effort to keep the campus failure rate down.

The major issues that need to be addressed in education have little to do with what goes on at schools--it's what goes on in the home that has a much greater impact.



This post was edited on 8/3 at 10:47 am


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
294642 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

Maybe they could actually get salary based on performance instead of just being there 5, 10, 15 years.

i think this is the "other side" that is often ignored by people

my mom's a teacher and has had really, really good success over her career. when we talk about this i try to emphasize how she's the one who would benefit from this system.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
294642 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

As for the pay increase for a Masters, if it is towards the education field, I have no problem with them getting an increase. The disclaimer should be that they have to be meeting the other standards too.


the key word is an "automatic" pay increase. nothing says that pay increases are abolished outright






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shutterspeed
Southern Miss Fan
Da Sipp
Member since May 2007
34078 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

the key word is an "automatic" pay increase. nothing says that pay increases are abolished outright


What would the qualification be then?






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
294642 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

The major issues that need to be addressed in education have little to do with what goes on at schools--it's what goes on in the home that has a much greater impact.

this reminds me of a local story a few years ago. lake charles boston high school was at risk for being shut down due to bad performance. they were given a period to change, and the school/school board here had a big local drive of sorts to get parents to help out. i think one of their biggest issues was attendance/truancy

LINK

quote:

But if this plan is to work at LCB, they say they need the community and parents on board.

"If you notice we have PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT in bold letters. We think that is the most important ingredient that may have been missing there. We need to get the parents back to the school," said School Board Member Elray Victorian.

"I got 100 letters in the mail yesterday from parents. I don't know of any other time that would have happened. It's opened a lot of parent's eyes in our community and we can't thank you enough for that," said School Board Member Mack Dellafosse.


what happened? basically no parents did anything, and then when the school WAS shut down, they flipped out







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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
294642 posts

re: NC dumps teacher tenure & automatic pay increases


quote:

What would the qualification be then?

i'd imagine some sort of performance formula

one thing that i did catch was long-term contracts with performing teachers. that seems like a step in the right direction

is MS like LA where it's 1-year deals for the most part?






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