The founder you most identify with. - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
5735 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


The French novelist Honore de Balzac called Franklin "the inventor of the lightning rod, the media hoax, and the republic". High praise, even if only 1 of 3 is literally true.

And yes, I'm aware that I just said "ball sack".






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lsu480
Arizona State Fan
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
67357 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

The father of "The Bill of Rights" Hello, he should be on everyone's short list! Mason refused to sign the Constitution until a Bill of Rights was passed. frickING GREAT AMERICAN!!!


So he was the one who decided that the government gets to tell us our rights.......






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GoBigOrange86
Tennessee Fan
Lowcountry, The South, USA
Member since Jun 2008
13319 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


Jefferson, easily.

But I adore George Washington, John Adams, George Mason...pretty much all of them.

quote:

The most libertarian president we've ever had and probably will have.


You should read up on Grover Cleveland and Calvin Coolidge. If you like libertarianism, those two (a Democrat and a Republican) ought to be heroes of yours.






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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
Open to any suggestions
Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

I'll attribute this comment to a lack of knowledge on the subject.



Why don't you open a book?






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15117 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

Why don't you open a book?


Please, enlighten us.






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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
13821 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


Benjamin Franklin





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AngryBeavers
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2012
3364 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:



So he was the one who decided that the government gets to tell us our rights.......


If we didn't have the Bill of Rights you can be damn sure we wouldn't have any right now and probably living under a dictator.



This post was edited on 7/5 at 1:42 pm


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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
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Member since Nov 2010
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re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

- attempted to dismantle the national bank
- cut back on military
- tried to end federal taxation




- The Louisiana Purchase

- His war with the Barbary States

- The Embargo Act of 1807


I can play this game too.

quote:

When he was elected the entire country celebrated. He was known as the people's president. His actions weren't very contradictory.



How does the fact that he was a "people's president" prove his actions as president didn't contradict his own political philosophies?






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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
13821 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

If we didn't have the Bill of Rights you can be damn sure we wouldn't have any right now


Rights don't come from a piece of paper.






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15117 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

- The Louisiana Purchase


Expanding the country is against the ideas of state's rights and a decentralized government?

quote:

- His war with the Barbary States



He taxed the country to protect its citizens. We didn't even have a navy. We spent ONE SIXTH of the budget on ransom to keep our own citizens alive. Don't pretend like libertarians think there is no reason whatsoever to tax the country. You're reaching here.

quote:

- The Embargo Act of 1807


You do realize this country's darkest hour was the war of 1812. The closest we've ever come to collapse. That was a direct result of going to actual war instead of commercial war (the embargo act). Had the embargo worked, that never would've happened. Although maybe you suggest, as what appears you suggest with the Barbary war, that we should have allowed American citizens to be captured and American sailors forced into impressment with no response. Quit being so unrealistic.

quote:

I can play this game too.


You're pretty bad at it.

quote:

How does the fact that he was a "people's president" prove his actions as president didn't contradict his own political philosophies?


In that time, citizens of states had a stronger allegiance to them than the federal government. A president "of the people" indicated that he looked out for the citizens' rights over the government's interests.

Have you ever opened a history book before?



This post was edited on 7/5 at 2:03 pm


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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
13821 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

Expanding the country is against the ideas of state's rights and a decentralized government?


As far as the LP goes, there is no Constitutional authority for the government to make such a purchase.






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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
Open to any suggestions
Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


These actions contradicted his own political philosophy. You think I'm the only one who thinks this? There are many political philosophers out there who adhere to this view.

Does it make Thomas Jefferson a bad President? Of course not. It only means that many of his own writings, which he wrote over 10 years before his own presidency, proved impractical.

If you are arguing against this, then I don't know what to tell you.






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LSUGrrrl
LSU Fan
Frisco, TX
Member since Jul 2007
5201 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


(no message)


This post was edited on 7/5 at 2:05 pm


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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
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Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
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re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

BleedPurpleGold



None of your responses invalidate my argument. Do you not see that?






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15117 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

These actions contradicted his own political philosophy. You think I'm the only one who thinks this? There are many political philosophers out there who adhere to this view.



There are people who argue a lot of stupid stuff. That doesn't make it right. Don't analyze his actions in a vacuum. Try to be a tad bit realistic here. No one is ever 100% bound to their ideals. Otherwise, being president would be the easiest job on Earth.

quote:

Does it make Thomas Jefferson a bad President? Of course not. It only means that many of his own writings, which he wrote over 10 years before his own presidency, proved impractical.


I think its pretty obvious he wrote in regard to a situation in which he was free to exercise policy he wanted to. He can't include in his writing every single variable possible. Who would have thought that the North African sultanates, after signing a peace treaty to return American's free of ransom who were captured, would immediately turn around and break the treaty within weeks? He tried alternate avenues that would have avoided taxation. At some point you have no other choice than to defend your own citizens, and you can't accomplish that without money.






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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
Open to any suggestions
Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

As far as the LP goes, there is no Constitutional authority for the government to make such a purchase.



AND Jefferson didn't wait for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment.






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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
Open to any suggestions
Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

There are people who argue a lot of stupid stuff. That doesn't make it right. Don't analyze his actions in a vacuum. Try to be a tad bit realistic here. No one is ever 100% bound to their ideals. Otherwise, being president would be the easiest job on Earth.



This is so funny because JEFFERSON'S OWN POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY proved UNREALISTIC. You can't argue against this.






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15117 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

None of your responses invalidate my argument. Do you not see that?


Yes they do. Unless you assume he should have gone down with the proverbial ship instead of making exceptions to his ideals to protect his own people. Don't be so unrealistic. No one in the real world can be a pure libertarian. That shouldn't mean that in an ideal situation he can't say how he ideally wanted to run the country.






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15117 posts

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

JEFFERSON'S OWN POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY proved UNREALISTIC. You can't argue against this.


Dude whatever. Obama's philosophy is unrealistic. Bush's philosophy was unrealistic. Even Lincoln's philosophy was unrealistic. Thats why its PHILOSOPHY and not the real world. You're allowed to have ideals, but they will be broken no matter how hard you try, unless you want to have the blood of thousands on your hands because you refused to bend.






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SabiDojo
South Alabama Fan
Open to any suggestions
Member since Nov 2010
32580 posts
 Online 

re: The founder you most identify with.


quote:

Even Lincoln's philosophy was unrealistic.


Not really. Lincoln was realistic, for the most part.

I encourage you, and the other people on this board who claim to know Jefferson, to read his writings. Many of these writings were before his own presidency. Then, look at his presidency, and see if his philosophy was consistent. Academic scholars hold that he was not.

Again, it didn't make him a bad president, but be careful to invoke his political beliefs in argument for how government should be run.

Read his writings. You will be surprised as to what you will find.






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