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Started By
Message
re: Winklevoss Twins Plan First Fund For Bitcoins
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:52 am to BennyAndTheInkJets
Posted on 7/8/13 at 9:52 am to BennyAndTheInkJets
quote:
When the bolded is very similar to our current system in application.
I'll expand on how exactly all the points I made are better:
quote:
such as being able to store it safely without needing to use a bank
The use of a bank subjects a person to potential fees, potentially being locked out of their account, delays in receiving their money (banking hours), and financial surveillance, among other things. And sure, you can store cash without a bank, but it's risky. You can't make backups of cash. You can make backups of bitcoin wallets.
quote:
being able to send it or receive it instantly at all hours of the day on any day of the year without needing to go through a third party - which is important because that means it is censorship resistant in that banks or processing companies can't exclude certain customers of their choosing (and yes, that does happen frequently)
Transfer times are not instant in the legacy banking system. There is also the potential for chargebacks or reversals. The delays in international transfers can be pretty long as well, and they come with high fees. Bitcoin transactions are instant and cheap.
Not only that, but bitcoin uses can't be excluded. Major credit cards companies, as well as PayPal routinely do this. It happened to wikileaks too. There are something like 60+ countries where traditional payment mechanisms don't work because of fraud or political issues or simply a business decision by payment processors. Bitcoin transcends all that.
quote:
An individual can also travel globally with large amounts of bitcoins without any governments being able to stop it.
As it stands now, if you travel with any large amount of cash on hand, you run a high risk of getting it seized by states. That is not a problem with bitcoin.
You may not need to do that, but there are many who would find that beneficial.
quote:
Transaction fees are extremely low if they exist at all.
I don't know why you bolded this one. Bitcoin transactions are so much cheaper than traditional paymeny mechanism that it's not even funny.
3
Posted on 7/8/13 at 10:06 am to WikiTiger
quote:
The use of a bank subjects a person to potential fees, potentially being locked out of their account, delays in receiving their money (banking hours)
Funny, I don't have any of these problems.
Posted on 7/8/13 at 10:13 am to WikiTiger
quote:
The use of a bank subjects a person to potential fees,
My banks not only does not charge me any fees for keeping my deposits safe, they actually PAY ME for keeping my deposits safe.
quote:BTC has the exact same potential.
potentially being locked out of their account,
quote:Have you never heard of "automated teller machines"? 24 hour access to my funds, without any fees. I can also use the bill pay system my bank provides me for free to pay most of my bills online, safe and secure, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Instant access to all my money all the time. Too bad you don't understand how to use the internet to conduct your financial transactions.....
delays in receiving their money (banking hours)
quote:Are you trying to convince people that the authorities around the world are not tracking btc transactions? Seriously??
and financial surveillance
quote:Not really. It's certainly no more risky than the numerous incidents of bitcoin accounts being hacked resulting in btc being stolen, never to be recovered by the owners.
And sure, you can store cash without a bank, but it's risky.
quote:Sure you can. I can back up (by printing out) my bank statement anytime I want to. Therefore I have proof I had the money in the bank. You're being silly again.
You can't make backups of cash.
quote:Nor are they "instant" in the btc system. It takes time to verify the btc code is valid and not duplicated. You taught us that. Did you forget?
Transfer times are not instant in the legacy banking system.
quote:Which protects the buyer. The buyer has ZERO protection when using bitcoin. Your "advantage" is a disadvantage to half of the users of btc transactions.
There is also the potential for chargebacks or reversals.
quote:Nope. I've received a wire transfer while in Moscow within minutes. BTC transactions on the bitcoin exchanges can take days to complete. On Mt Gox now (the largest btc exchange) btc owners who want to get dollar for their bitcoins can't get ANY dollars out no matter how long they wait. Dollar withdrawals are not allowed.
The delays in international transfers can be pretty long as well,
And before you try to use your usual strawman argument about the exchanges are not the bitcoin "system," you are referring to getting money out of the 'system' in an international transfer system which you can only do if you go through an exchange.
quote:You're kidding, right? There are numerous examples of bitcoin accounts being frozen or seized. Plus, the market, which you love, excludes most bitcoin transactions by not accepting bitcoins for payment for their goods or services.
but bitcoin uses can't be excluded.
quote:No, you don't. You run a risk, but a small one, not a "high risk." I've made over 200 international trips for work and I've never had any of my money seized by any authority. So you could say I've had ZERO risk. And I have been to some very totalitarian, schizo countries. ZERO money taken from me.
if you travel with any large amount of cash on hand, you run a high risk of getting it seized by states.
This post was edited on 7/8/13 at 10:21 am
Posted on 7/9/13 at 8:44 am to WikiTiger
quote:
I don't know why you bolded this one. Bitcoin transactions are so much cheaper than traditional paymeny mechanism that it's not even funny.
I hate to break it to you but bitcoin is a looooong ways away from being able to avoid exchanging into currency as a transaction. And right now bitcoin bid/ask spreads are massively wider than any currency exchange in the world. I understand btc-btc have low transaction costs and even none if you meet certain conditions, but you don't mention the small mining fees associated with bitcoin. You also don't mention that a major reason banks have large transaction fees is for security purposes, in which bitcoin is severely lacking. I think you were a little quick to pull out you're ROFLmoticon. Russian answered a lot of your points but I can expand when I get a second today.
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