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Message
re: The Importance of Camp Evaluations and Offers
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:09 pm to jrevonte
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:09 pm to jrevonte
quote:
no punching bro, I would waste my precious energy on such a feeble little man...
For someone that claimed to be done with this thread, you seem to have found a lot of time to come back into it to continue to discuss something other than the topic of the OP and to make personal attacks on someone you know not one thing about.
If you didn't understand what I was saying in the OP, you didn't have to post in this thread at all. And if you wanted to discuss a different topic, which it's pretty clear you do, you could always start your own thread.
If you feel the need to make personal attacks, go somewhere else. That bullshite is not needed on this board.
1
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:12 pm to ProjectP2294
Thank you. Great post. It's sickening to see our fans be so disappointed that we accepted a commitment from a kid who they know nothing about. I trust Miles more than anyone in this board.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:16 pm to jrevonte
Everyone calm down. We are all on the same side here.
Let me try to explain this as well as I can:
There are a few types of offers:
Unconditional: no need for camp performance, as long as you stay out of trouble and your
grades are passable, you're a take.
In this instance you have to have extremely impressive film. This can also include trips by coaches watching practice, or high school games, and/or discussions with the players parents/coaches for character references. This type of offer is rare.
Conditional: Must attain certain thresholds before a commitment is accepted. Certain players are borderline, and have to show an increase in either size, speed or strength before their offer is commitable. The coaches build a genuine relationship with the recruit and still recruit them hard, but the pressure is on the athlete to make the improvements necessary to firm up their offer.
First come first serve: This is a numbers offer. If you like three players equally, and you only have room for two, then you inform the prospects that the staff will accept their commitments on a first come first served basis.
Camp/Feeler offers: This does not necessarily indicate the level of talent of a prospect. A coach may have heard rave reviews from a trusted coach/source, but there was not enough film to make a solid judgement. The coaches would like to get the prospect in camp(albiet in shorts) to be able to gauge the prospects talent in an apples to apples environment. This goes for players with grainy or inconclusive film.
This offer also goes to kids whom the coaches are unsure of their genuine desire for LSU. Some kids use different schools offers to leverage an offer from a favorite but different school. The coaches prefer some of these kids to get on campus first to see if their measurables are correct, if their character/attitude is solid, and sometimes more importantly, to gauge the sincerity of their interest.
The coaches are imperfect. I have followed recruiting for over five years now, and I still have a lot to learn. I can say that I have seen every staff in the SEC misstep including Meyer, Saban, Miles, Richt, etc...
Analyzing things like this will just create more questions than answers.
Just remember, these guys are paid very well to coach, but most of their paycheck is earned on the recruiting trail. While they make mistakes, it isnt because they are lazy or incompetent. Overall, we have very little to complain about when it comes to recruiting as Tiger fans. Everyone need not let our success jade your view in a pessimistic light.
Let me try to explain this as well as I can:
There are a few types of offers:
Unconditional: no need for camp performance, as long as you stay out of trouble and your
grades are passable, you're a take.
In this instance you have to have extremely impressive film. This can also include trips by coaches watching practice, or high school games, and/or discussions with the players parents/coaches for character references. This type of offer is rare.
Conditional: Must attain certain thresholds before a commitment is accepted. Certain players are borderline, and have to show an increase in either size, speed or strength before their offer is commitable. The coaches build a genuine relationship with the recruit and still recruit them hard, but the pressure is on the athlete to make the improvements necessary to firm up their offer.
First come first serve: This is a numbers offer. If you like three players equally, and you only have room for two, then you inform the prospects that the staff will accept their commitments on a first come first served basis.
Camp/Feeler offers: This does not necessarily indicate the level of talent of a prospect. A coach may have heard rave reviews from a trusted coach/source, but there was not enough film to make a solid judgement. The coaches would like to get the prospect in camp(albiet in shorts) to be able to gauge the prospects talent in an apples to apples environment. This goes for players with grainy or inconclusive film.
This offer also goes to kids whom the coaches are unsure of their genuine desire for LSU. Some kids use different schools offers to leverage an offer from a favorite but different school. The coaches prefer some of these kids to get on campus first to see if their measurables are correct, if their character/attitude is solid, and sometimes more importantly, to gauge the sincerity of their interest.
The coaches are imperfect. I have followed recruiting for over five years now, and I still have a lot to learn. I can say that I have seen every staff in the SEC misstep including Meyer, Saban, Miles, Richt, etc...
Analyzing things like this will just create more questions than answers.
Just remember, these guys are paid very well to coach, but most of their paycheck is earned on the recruiting trail. While they make mistakes, it isnt because they are lazy or incompetent. Overall, we have very little to complain about when it comes to recruiting as Tiger fans. Everyone need not let our success jade your view in a pessimistic light.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:20 pm to BillyBobBlitzkrieg
I just don't see why a kid wouldn't want to go to a camp and earn an offer. To me it says a lot about what they are willing to do in order to be the best they can. Why would you want someone on your team that thinks they should just be handed something? Don't get me wrong, if a players shows out on film than obviously he's worth an offer talent wise, but am I the only thing that sees a red flag when someone isn't doing everything they can to maximize their chances for success?
Idk, I could be wrong. Just my opinion though.
Idk, I could be wrong. Just my opinion though.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:31 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
If you feel the need to make personal attacks, go somewhere else. That bull shite is not needed on this board.
It ain't no fun when the rabbit has the gun is it...read your replays to my posts, I think you started with the attacks. Second, I post where I please and i talk about what i want to. 3. You don't know me either. 4. And actually I wouldn't waste my precious energy on such a feeble little man. This is not a personal attack it's the truth...
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:40 pm to jrevonte
Wow. Another response. I feel so honored you would deign yourself to continue to attempt to argue with someone you feel is so feeble, especially when you've already said would no longer participate in this thread.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:46 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
Wow. Another response. I feel so honored you would deign yourself to continue to attempt to argue with someone you feel is so feeble, especially when you've already said would no longer participate in this thread.
You should feel honored!
I like you bruh. But quit acting like a BIA...it's just conversation.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:51 pm to ProjectP2294
Amen, brother. 
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:56 pm to SohCahToa
Every kid is different SohCah...
Some kids play ball year round, and dont only focus on football.
Some kids are too poor to travel and make camps. Some kids may have sick parents or grandparents and want to spend time with them.
Some kids bust their arse on the field, and are content with the offers they have. They shy away from the lime light, dont want to be asked a thousand questions by awkward reporters with obivous bias from their respective represented university.
Some kids know life is gonna get crazy, and they are enjoying their last bit of peace before adulthood.
They are still kids. I would post up shop and watch Star Wars back to back, hit the swimming pool, eat Burger King and chocolate icecream and joyride all summer long. Let them enjoy the process how they want man. As long as when they get on campus they represent the school with dedication, integrity and class, then its not our business to care how they handle their last summer of high school
Some kids play ball year round, and dont only focus on football.
Some kids are too poor to travel and make camps. Some kids may have sick parents or grandparents and want to spend time with them.
Some kids bust their arse on the field, and are content with the offers they have. They shy away from the lime light, dont want to be asked a thousand questions by awkward reporters with obivous bias from their respective represented university.
Some kids know life is gonna get crazy, and they are enjoying their last bit of peace before adulthood.
They are still kids. I would post up shop and watch Star Wars back to back, hit the swimming pool, eat Burger King and chocolate icecream and joyride all summer long. Let them enjoy the process how they want man. As long as when they get on campus they represent the school with dedication, integrity and class, then its not our business to care how they handle their last summer of high school
Posted on 6/10/13 at 9:57 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
There are some people that seem to be underwhelmed by guys that we offer when they earn an offer at one of our camps.
Sure, every kid can be seen on tape, at their practice, or at their games, but evaluations have to go further than that. These camps are an opportunity for guys that may have the talent to play at LSU to prove that they have the other intangibles to be an asset to the team.
LSU coaches are able to eliminate all the variables they have to work around when doing off site evals. Camps let them control the level of competition. Camps allow the coaches to put prospects through specific drills and evaluate from there. They can see how coachable a kid is and what kind of attitude he displays when he's being taught. They can evaluate the competitive nature of a kid in person, under pressure.
While the camps are huge for evaluating skills, they provide an even bigger opportunity for the coaches to evaluate the things that take place on the practice field from week to week that determine whether or not a player can be successful.
So, when a little thought of kid jumps onto the radar and earns an offer at camp, it's because he's shown that he meets several qualifications that the coaches look for in a player. Camp offers generally don't have anything to do with any other prospects situation, only the kid that earned the offer. It means that he's proved himself worthy, not that our coaches are scared we're going to lose out on another kid.
Project,
While I agree with your preface that working kids out in camp allows you to really put them through the ringer, see how they react to authority/coaching, strip away systems, get true measureables, etc., I would also say that the majority of camp-earned offers are also from mid-range prospects.
There are guys, the Hands, Nkemdiches, Clowneys, etc, who you don't need to strip things variables away to get the accurate picture of the prospect. They're obvious offers from watching the tape. That's not the case with most of these camp guys.
It's not to say the camp guys are all scrubs, but it's also fairly rare that they find the true diamond in the rough in camp. Recently I can think of Cameran Fordham, Derrick Bryant, Armand Williams, that fat DT fvck from Bama and that's about it who earned camp offers. Were any of these studs? There's no reason to writeoff every camp-earned offer, but to they're not the holy grail either. They're usually mid-range 3 stars. Every class has them, I would absolutely rather it be a mid-range 3 star they've seen in camp than one solely based on tape.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:00 pm to jrevonte
Hey, jrevonte.. While we have you here, what happened to the rumbling in the distance from a while back? 
Do you think that's still gonna happen or is it a rumbling at ND now?
Do you think that's still gonna happen or is it a rumbling at ND now?
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:01 pm to FootballNostradamus
Mathieu was unheard of precamp. Tennessee camp is where he really blew up.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:03 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
I would also say that the majority of camp-earned offers are also from mid-range prospects.
Well, yeah. That's the prospects I'm referring to. I'm talking about the kids that come seemingly out of nowhere and earn an offer. Nkemdiche never came out of nowhere.
And Armand Williams wasn't a camp offer. Dexter Blackmon was, but he fell off the face of the earth by the time signing day rolled around. I can't remember if Fordham or Bryant were, but I don't think Bryant was. I honestly can't recall much of Fordham's recruitment at all.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:09 pm to jrevonte
With Jrevonte being the father of prospect I think his opinion should be both welcomed and appreciated.
But I think a good amount of LSU fans recognize the importance of camp evaluations and offers. That's how we got Tyrann Mathieu. It's just LSU is a big time program that attracts big time prospects and vice versa, it makes up the majority of their classes. Offers and camps work different for the labeled blue chippers, that's all.
But I think a good amount of LSU fans recognize the importance of camp evaluations and offers. That's how we got Tyrann Mathieu. It's just LSU is a big time program that attracts big time prospects and vice versa, it makes up the majority of their classes. Offers and camps work different for the labeled blue chippers, that's all.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:10 pm to JJ27
Great point, Mathieu was unheard of, count Mills, Claiborne, Hurst, Black, Hester, Tre White wasnt highly rated early on when he commited, Williford.
That said we have had our fair share of busts also. No coach keeps all his players. Everyone has their share of attrition, and thats just part of the process. Every class will have its busts, and thats okay
That said we have had our fair share of busts also. No coach keeps all his players. Everyone has their share of attrition, and thats just part of the process. Every class will have its busts, and thats okay
This post was edited on 6/10/13 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:26 pm to Ironhead985
quote:
Hey, jrevonte.. While we have you here, what happened to the rumbling in the distance from a while back? Do you think that's still gonna happen or is it a rumbling at ND now?
Not really sure...when I heard the message the rumblings were strong. Now we are a month removed and circumstances have changed....I would suggest that you wait and see.
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:31 pm to BillyBobBlitzkrieg
Also, it seems that some on here think that the players who don't pan out are all lower rated guys. There have been plenty of guys that were 4 or 5 stars that didn't live up to their billing.
As stated before, ALL classes will have someone like this. And if the staff wants to see those "under the radar" guys in camp before they get an offer, then so be it. And is it fair that players like Nkemdiche, Hand, Fournette, or even Moses for that matter, don't have to camp to get an offer? No. But that is just life. Some people are just better. And with that better skill, comes better treatment from others. Fact!
As stated before, ALL classes will have someone like this. And if the staff wants to see those "under the radar" guys in camp before they get an offer, then so be it. And is it fair that players like Nkemdiche, Hand, Fournette, or even Moses for that matter, don't have to camp to get an offer? No. But that is just life. Some people are just better. And with that better skill, comes better treatment from others. Fact!
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:33 pm to jrevonte
quote:
wait and see
Always the best approach when following recruiting...
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:38 pm to jrevonte
Is the player still favoring LSU? You said the circumstances changed, has the players feelings about LSU changed?
Posted on 6/10/13 at 10:40 pm to smash williams
quote:
With Jrevonte being the father of prospect I think his opinion should be both welcomed and appreciated.
See, I asked a question earlier to get an answer to a small problem that cropped up...a friend of ours received several major offers. One school in particular that had not offered him wants him to camp and be evaluated....this is a two part question
1. Should he camp at the schools that have offered so that he can evaluate the coaching staff and facilities and decide on his favorites.
Or
2. Should he camp at the school that has not offered with the possibility of not receiving an offer and also missing the camps of the schools that have offered?
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