Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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Vicks Kennel Club
USA Fan
Fire Jurgen
Member since Dec 2010
18648 posts
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

Shhhh. I love when people post shite purely based on name values without looking things up.

Torii was worth 2.1 more games than Hamilton last year according to Baseball Reference War.

Yawn, clearly Hunter is a better defensive player even with his no longer unbelievable defensive abilites that he had back in Minnesota, but Hamilton was clearly better.

Hamilton:
148 games
43 homers
60 walks
.354 OBP
.577 SLG
.930 OPS

Hunter:
140 games
16 homers
38 walks
.365 OBP
.451 SLG
.817 OPS

Do not just blindly recite WAR. Anyone with half a brain can see Hamilton was a superior player. FWIW, Hamilton had a higher oWAR last year by the way. Your entire argument is based on defensive metrics, which are fairly skeptical to believe in nature.



This post was edited on 2/18 at 11:56 pm


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Jcorye1
LSU Fan
Tom Terrific (greater than) Brees
Member since Dec 2007
27942 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

Do not just blindly recite WAR. Anyone with half a brain can see Hamilton was a superior was better player. FWIW, Hamilton had a higher oWAR last year by the way. Your entire argument is based on defensive metrics, which are fairly skeptical to believe in nature.



Josh Hamilton had an OPS+ of 139
Hunter was at 132.

I never said Hamilton wasn't better, but it's not a slam dunk like some were acting.




This post was edited on 2/18 at 11:58 pm


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Ysebaert
Member since Oct 2011
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


Hunter is not a better defensive player than Hamilton right now at all. And Torii Hunter was my favorite Angel the last few years. He gave my daughter a big smile and waived to her when she said heyyy Torii last year. He's just getting old.





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Vicks Kennel Club
USA Fan
Fire Jurgen
Member since Dec 2010
18648 posts
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


What is the standard deviation for OPS+? 9 points could be a fairly decent sized difference.

Is the mean 100 on a year-by-year basis, since this is not adjusted by eras?






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Lester Earl
LSU Fan
#buganation
Member since Nov 2003
182869 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


keep in mind Hunter played RF all last year.





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Jcorye1
LSU Fan
Tom Terrific (greater than) Brees
Member since Dec 2007
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


Average is always set at 100. Trout this year got 179.







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Ysebaert
Member since Oct 2011
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


True. And Hamilton is not going to play CF for the Angels. Neither is Mike Trout.





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Brian Wilson
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2012
1152 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

And Hamilton is not going to play CF for the Angels. Neither is Mike Trout.



Trout will be in center. Book it.






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hehateme2285
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2007
3196 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


Hamilton is actually going to try this year is my guess.





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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

Is the mean 100 on a year-by-year basis, since this is not adjusted by eras?

It's not only adjusted by league average each year, but by park factor.

I also think WAR is perhaps the worst idea in the history of sports analysis. It just leads to lazy and wrong-headed analysis. The kind of analysis of simply regurgitating received wisdom without thinking about it that the early sabermetricians hated so much.

Oh, and Hunter had a great year that he had about zero chance of duplicating. I do think people are ignoring the great year Hunter had, so its not like Hamilton adds a lot of production relative to last season, but he's still clearly an upgrade.






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bbap
Indiana Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2006
79796 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

I never said Hamilton wasn't better, but it's not a slam dunk like some were acting.


nope. the angels did get younger so that helps although josh's body is that of an 80 year old.






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barry
Cincinnati Fan
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
37902 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

I also think WAR is perhaps the worst idea in the history of sports analysis.


Wrong.

Its a great idea.

Its not their fault people want to use it as an end all be all. But people always do that. Frankly if people are gonna do it, Id rather them do it with WAR then BA or RBI's. I assume you were being hyperbolic.






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Baloo
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Formerly MDGeaux
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


No, I actually mean it. I think the One True Number method of analysis is inherently wrong. And it's turned thoughtful analysis into largely lazy and stupid analysis. No single development in sports has lead to more terrible analysis than the invention of WAR.

The world would be better off had it never been invented. It's not just wrong in execution, it's wrong in theory.






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ProjectP2294
Miami (OH) Fan
St Louis County
Member since May 2007
31108 posts
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


I have no thoughts on advanced statistics, as this thread has turned in that direction. I just wanted to state that Angels have seemed to put together the greatest slow pitch softball team ever assembled and will score runs comparable to that.





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Dro
LSU Fan
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Member since Feb 2010
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton







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lsu480
Arizona State Fan
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
67357 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

. I just wanted to state that Angels have seemed to put together the greatest slow pitch softball team ever



No shit!






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barry
Cincinnati Fan
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
37902 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

No, I actually mean it. I think the One True Number method of analysis is inherently wrong. And it's turned thoughtful analysis into largely lazy and stupid analysis. No single development in sports has lead to more terrible analysis than the invention of WAR.


Well I disagree and I'm not gonna argue why, lazy people will always do lazy analysis, this is nothing new. WAR hasn't made it worse, it just changed the numbers they are using.

quote:

. It's not just wrong in execution, it's wrong in theory.


How's that?






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DEANintheYAY
USA Fan
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
30747 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

And Hamilton is not going to play CF for the Angels. Neither is Mike Trout.



Trout will be in center. Book it.


Unless something happens to Bourjos, Trout will not be in CF. He will be in LF with Hamilton in RF.


And to the OP...as a fan of the Angels who REALLY wanted Santana to be a solid pitcher, you are dead wrong about Ervin.






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DEANintheYAY
USA Fan
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
30747 posts

re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


Thought I would leave this here considering our discussion of WAR.







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Vicks Kennel Club
USA Fan
Fire Jurgen
Member since Dec 2010
18648 posts
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re: Angels won't improve by adding Hamilton


quote:

It's not only adjusted by league average each year, but by park factor.

I knew that part, but I was curious to know the standard deviations of OPS+ every year.






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