Libertarians... I have a question... - Page 13 - TigerDroppings.com

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yallallcrazy
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2007
210 posts

re: Libertarians... I have a question...


quote:

What sort of overhead is involved in setting up these distribution centers?


First off, every town of any size already has an office just to handle the "food stamp" program. I had an office next door to one of these for a few years, and it had more than enough staff to do what I suggested already. It is absurd, though, to simply give folks money for food and not restrict the purchases they make as far as frugality. It is not their money! It is society's money!

quote:

I agree that the current system doesn't do enough to wean people off of it, but I don't think it's because life is grand when you're on welfare.


The current system does NOTHING to wean folks, and in fact encourages the opposite. If there were any incentives to get off the dole, do you not think the welfare parents would be driving their kids hardest to succeed and get some kind of skillset? I think you would find the opposite to be true.

When an able-bodied man with an education adequate for employment has figured out that he can get $52,000 a year from various govt programs, and so has been doing this while raising 2 kids who he now gets to stay home with--- we have a problem. Turn him in, you say? Well, he isn't breaking any laws, rules, etc. He is completely within the boundaries of the system.

IMO, our roadsides should have NO litter. Our municipalities should have no need to pay both welfare recipients AND laborers. You get a check, we will find something for you to do.

The system as we see it now has very, very few of the people like you describe in it for very long. It has far, far to many of 3d and 4th generation welfare recipients who understand the game and play it well. That needs to stop, as it robs society both financially and through loss of potential of the families of the recipients.






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9640 posts

re: Libertarians... I have a question...


quote:

It is absurd, though, to simply give folks money for food and not restrict the purchases they make as far as frugality. It is not their money! It is society's money!

Agreed, there should definitely be a way to restrict purchases, whether there is a buy/no-buy list of groceries and necessities, or whatever.
quote:

The current system does NOTHING to wean folks, and in fact encourages the opposite.

I partially agree, but only partially because I don't see an obvious way to wean. I think the problem is that the absolute bottom-dollar cost of living a civilized life in America is pretty high, especially with dependents. Food is expensive, utilities are expensive, gas is expensive. Child care alone can eat up the majority of a minimum-wage paycheck. Part of the problem, to me, is that assistance gets cut off too abruptly at certain income levels. There should be a smooth transition, a gradual reduction in benefits as income rises. At no point should an additional dollar earned from working result in a net loss of total income.
quote:

IMO, our roadsides should have NO litter. Our municipalities should have no need to pay both welfare recipients AND laborers. You get a check, we will find something for you to do.

Wholeheartedly agree. The only obvious issue is that additional funds would be needed for child care since parents wouldn't be home, but I think it would be worth it since actual work will be getting done AND it is a path toward steady employment.
quote:

The system as we see it now has very, very few of the people like you describe in it for very long. It has far, far to many of 3d and 4th generation welfare recipients who understand the game and play it well. That needs to stop, as it robs society both financially and through loss of potential of the families of the recipients.

Agreed again, and I have acknowledged that there are problems with the system throughout the thread. My main issue in the thread was with the people who just want all entitlement programs ended. I don't think they have thought their argument through, and don't realize that not only do welfare programs help SOME people become productive instead of homeless, but that every dollar given out goes directly back into the economy. How many tens of millions of people receive government checks? What would happen if all of a sudden they didn't have money to spend anymore? It has to be a smooth transition.






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yallallcrazy
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2007
210 posts

re: Libertarians... I have a question...


Well, as i suspect is usuallly the case, we are on different sides of an argument when we actually pretty much agree.

The only difference is that I am of the opinion that the current system is making things much worse, and we have reached the steep part of the curve. We must do something soon or we will destroy ourselves with good intentions.

Oh, and:
quote:

additional funds would be needed for child care since parents wouldn't be home


Not really. You get a check, come over to such and such a place and watch some kids so some other folks can go do some other work. I assure you there are more than enough adults on govt assistance to do this.








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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9640 posts

re: Libertarians... I have a question...


quote:

You get a check, come over to such and such a place and watch some kids so some other folks can go do some other work. I assure you there are more than enough adults on govt assistance to do this.

I know the manpower is there, but there are still costs involved, facilities, training, etc. But yeah, I think this is VERY feasible as long as they don't end up as lifelong government employees.






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