Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man. - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

funny how you leave unions out of the equations. A group of people spending money to influence government is evil and bad, yet another group of people doing the same thing(except with involuntary/compulsory confiscation from members of the group) is encouraged and supported.

No, what's funny is how unions ALWAYS come up when discussing corporate personhood with conservatives.

The reason I left unions out of my discourse was because they don't exist soley to create wealth - wealth being equated to Free Speech now in this country.

Are the unions over representing interests in the US government? Maybe, maybe not, that simply wasn't what I was discussing. HOWEVER - ANY entity that is capable of buying influence with the government in the name of redressing grievances through free speech is probably overrepresentingh its interests and may be seen as a problem.

But can anyone ever discuss corporations on their own merit without having to throw red fish everywhere? Are all of your opinions on corporations tied to your opinions on unions? Is my entire statement regarding corporations' influence in our government invalidated by the cry, "What about UNIONS?"






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CptRusty
New Orleans Saints Fan
We are the ones who knock
Member since Aug 2011
4206 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


The common denominator there is government which has more power than it should. The inevitable result is that politicians are influenced by those with the means to influence them (money).

The problem is government.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

While they were a product of the free market they have grown into something that is decidedly anti free market.

Oh, come on, how long are people going to continue to use unions as their bugaboo ffor what is all that is wrong with this country?

"Have grown"?








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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

The common denominator there is government which has more power than it should. The inevitable result is that politicians are influenced by those with the means to influence them (money). The problem is government.



No thoughtful person can question that the American economic system is under broad attack. This varies in scope, intensity, in the techniques employed, and in the level of visibility.

There always have been some who opposed the American system, and preferred socialism or some form of statism (communism or fascism). Also, there always have been critics of the system, whose criticism has been wholesome and constructive so long as the objective was to improve rather than to subvert or destroy.

But what now concerns us is quite new in the history of America. We are not dealing with sporadic or isolated attacks from a relatively few extremists or even from the minority socialist cadre. Rather, the assault on the enterprise system is broadly based and consistently pursued. It is gaining momentum and converts.
...
But independent and uncoordinated activity by individual corporations, as important as this is, will not be sufficient. Strength lies in organization, in careful long-range planning and implementation, in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing available only through joint effort, and in the political power available only through united action and national organizations.

Moreover, there is the quite understandable reluctance on the part of any one corporation to get too far out in front and to make itself too visible a target.

The role of the National Chamber of Commerce is therefore vital. Other national organizations (especially those of various industrial and commercial groups) should join in the effort, but no other organizations appear to be as well situated as the Chamber. It enjoys a strategic position, with a fine reputation and a broad base of support. Also — and this is of immeasurable merit — there are hundreds of local Chambers of Commerce which can play a vital supportive role.


What about corporate unions?






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ironsides
LSU Fan
Nashville, TN
Member since May 2006
6093 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


There aren't really any such thing as corporate unions, except for the unholy union between big business and big government, which creates socialism. You can argue that what we have today is as much socialism as it is capitalism with the only people recieving the benefits being the very wealthy and politicians.

If we didn't bail out the banks, if we regulated them the way they were supposed to be regulated, if we didn't buy GM and screw the bondholders, you would see capitalism flourish.






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Bucktown Tigah
LSU Fan
Metairie, LA
Member since Jul 2008
3431 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


Yeah, nobody is exploited under the systems of monarchy, totalitarianism, communism or socialism.







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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
52093 posts
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re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

"Have grown"?






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1324 posts
 Online 

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

If we didn't bail out the banks, if we regulated them the way they were supposed to be regulated, if we didn't buy GM and screw the bondholders, you would see capitalism flourish.

Print 10,000 pages of regulations and still you cannot escape from the fact that a basic tenant of capitalism is failure.






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1324 posts
 Online 

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

I was merely trying to describe the dynamics without providing any judgement as to whether the dynamic is 'good' or 'bad'.

ok
quote:

It is currently how the system works.

I think you have your answer.






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Zahrim
Colorado Fan
McCamey Texas
Member since Mar 2009
4533 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

Print 10,000 pages of regulations and still you cannot escape from the fact that a basic tenant of capitalism is failure.


wow, what a statement full of ignorance and failure. perhaps you should move to Cuba and see how the anti capitalists are doing over there.






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1324 posts
 Online 

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

wow, what a statement full of ignorance and failure. perhaps you should move to Cuba and see how the anti capitalists are doing over there

Capitalism cannot exist without failure IE bankruptcy.

Bailing out banks and corporations that are deemed too-big-to-fail is crony capitalism -> fascism.

Good luck with that reading comprehension thing.






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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3566 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

But can anyone ever discuss corporations on their own merit without having to throw red fish everywhere? Are all of your opinions on corporations tied to your opinions on unions? Is my entire statement regarding corporations' influence in our government invalidated by the cry, "What about UNIONS?"



As long as you talk about groups of people using money to influence government, they are inseparable. The case of unions is generally more insidious though, as the money/speech of the members of the group is confiscated by decree of government, and used to influence politicians against the will of many members. If a consumer doesn't like the political activity of a corporation, they can remove their money from said activity. Union members usually have no choice.

I also disagree with the statement separating corporations and unions. They both exist to produce or amass wealth. The concept of unions may have began as an effort to ensure safety etc, but that is now a small part of their mission.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

There aren't really any such thing as corporate unions

You obviously didn't read my post.

But independent and uncoordinated activity by individual corporations, as important as this is, will not be sufficient. Strength lies in organization, in careful long-range planning and implementation, in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing available only through joint effort, and in the political power available only through united action and national organizations.
quote:

the unholy union between big business and big government, which creates socialism

Did the government BUY the banks? No. Does the government own controlling stock in GM anymore? No. This is NOT "socialism", it is "corporatism".






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


C'mon, Tigah, you're comparing RATES. What if the total number of government employees is falling? It is possible that the rate of unionization goes up while the numbers of unionized goverment workers goes down?

Yes.

And I really don't believe you see an increase in union influence over the last 30 years. It is in decline in America, and has been for a long time. There is no reason to blame the unions for all of our ills. They are a convenient scapegoat.






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Zahrim
Colorado Fan
McCamey Texas
Member since Mar 2009
4533 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


sorry i misread an A in your statement. given that, than i agree. funny the grammar nazi got me....





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Jax-Tiger
LSU Fan
Portland, OR
Member since Jan 2005
7315 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

"As a rule, capitalism is blamed for the undesired effects of a policy directed at its elimination" - Ludwig Von Mises


Policies such as those created by Obamacare, for example?






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1324 posts
 Online 

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

And I really don't believe you see an increase in union influence over the last 30 years. It is in decline in America, and has been for a long time. There is no reason to blame the unions for all of our ills. They are a convenient scapegoat.

Wages have also declined continuously over the past 30 years. I don't necessarily attribute it to the waning of union influence either. I actually see it as a consequence of the transition to a credit financed economy after peak domestic oil production in the seventies. Combine that with a vast MIC ready to enforce the global dollar standard and it was really the only available option left for kicking the can further.

Look around and tell me it isn't true.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
15186 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

wow, what a statement full of ignorance and failure. perhaps you should move to Cuba and see how the anti capitalists are doing over there.

To make a long story short, Scott makes the case that about 25% of new businesses fail in the first 12 months of operation. In reality this figure may be higher (up to 40%) when you take into account that in many states when you file for a Sole Proprietor, the filing is good for 10 years and no annual renewals are required. In any case, small business start-ups do fail and the first year of business has the greatest number of business failures.

Proportion of New Businesses Founded in 1992 Still Alive By Year:



LINK

Welcome to 'Cuba'.






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Bunk Moreland
Michigan Fan
Detroit, MI.
Member since Dec 2010
6218 posts

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


You and Tchoup are doing work in this thread.

To me, the problem isn't capitalism v socialism, so much as it is the debt based infinite growth pyramid scheme which both parties worship and which shackles all of us. I don't know if the Austrian economic camp is the best alternative, but I think they are on the right track. I know a lot of people on here hate Martenson, but he gets the big picture.
The Real Reason the Economy Is Broken and Will Stay That Way.



This post was edited on 2/15 at 1:12 pm


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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1324 posts
 Online 

re: Capitalism is the Exploitation of Man by Man.


quote:

No. This is NOT "socialism", it is "corporatism".

Pick your -ism, it matters not.

Marx never wrote anything about subjugating people under a totalitarian regime and eliminating anyone capable of challenging it. All of these wonderful isms promise justice but are really only tools to convince the oppressed to be cannon fodder against those currently in power. There is never any intention of sharing power. You only wind up with different masters.






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