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re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?

Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:09 pm to
Posted by Atom-Z
Member since Jun 2012
2307 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

bigger teams (and i mean like Man U, not a team of lebrons in hypothetical land) should have a huge advantage over teams like barca in terms of physicality


Barcas technique > ManU's size
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:11 pm to
Theo Walcott is a good prototype for the kind of athlete we should be targeting. Granted Walcott is probably one of the best athletes in the UK right now (son of a former track star), but his physical attributes are about what we see from several of our "failed" athletes.
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
50248 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:11 pm to
quote:


physical play has been penalized a great deal in the past 5 years or so
it´s all about dominion of the ball. people have to go through someone to get it, hence it´s whistled.

We´re talking about the EPL I assume.

You didn´t have as many foreigners from the continent and South America before then.

So, the ball was ALWAYS in contention (up for dispute), as the attacker never really had the ball under complete control, and close to his body.

´Tis simple.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 2:14 pm
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31061 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

size and power should be an asset but they're not called as a detriment

There are not huge incentives in soccer to be big and strong. You want quickness, endurance, low center of gravity, and technique. You always look for the video game freak like Lebron. 99% of the time, it just does not work as well in soccer.
Posted by Atom-Z
Member since Jun 2012
2307 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

SlowFlowPro


Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

but when refs call fouls that reward small teams for being weak, it eliminates the advantage


This isn't true. Barcelona's absurd technique forces slow players like Michael Carrick or Alvaro Arbeloa to foul incessantly. It's the definition of tactical fouling. Sometimes the player might not realize what he's doing, but Ferguson and Mourinho would much rather slow the play down than let Messi and Iniesta run.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 2:28 pm
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
50248 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

This isn't true. Barcelona's absurd technique forces slow players like Michael Carrick or Alvaro Arbeloa to foul incessantly. It's the definition of tactical fouling. Sometime the player might not realize what he's doing, but Ferguson and Mourinho would much rather slow the play down than let Messi and Iniesta run.

this.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

Barcelona's absurd technique forces slow players like Michael Carrick or Alvaro Arbeloa to foul incessantly. It's the definition of tactical fouling.

it's more than that. the last time man u played barca rooney was called for getting good position on a handful of long balls

i'm not even talking about having destroyers in the midfield. i mean allowing stronger guys to gain position downfield where there is a ton of space to move. if the refs won't let bigger players get position to handle longballs, then it's going to be really ough to ever beat barca

real has had these problems the past few years, too. what you end up with is one team playing shitty shell soccer and trying to destroy barca via fouls and not allowing different offenses to work

basically they've called to game to require a team to play compact and on the ground, and if you play barca they're going to beat you at this so you will have ugly soccer on the other side without a chance of doing anything about it
Posted by Atom-Z
Member since Jun 2012
2307 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

i'm not even talking about having destroyers in the midfield. i mean allowing stronger guys to gain position downfield where there is a ton of space to move. if the refs won't let bigger players get position to handle longballs, then it's going to be really ough to ever beat barca


I dont understand what you mean by this.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

There are not huge incentives in soccer to be big and strong.

there used to be. that was a big part of germany's success in the past

i wish soccer was more evenly-called. if you're smaller and weaker, you should be worn down by losing collisions/battles with bigger players over 90 minutes. you should have a distinct disadvantage in the air (And not be rewarded for being weak and falling down on contact)
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

I dont understand what you mean by this.

play a long ball to a physical striker

the striker attempts to gain position against a smaller defender to gain the ball

the smaller defender is weaker and falls down or loses position while the offensive player isn't doing anything other than gaining position

foul is called on the offensive player
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 2:28 pm
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
50248 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:29 pm to
Slowflo,



This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 2:34 pm
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:35 pm to
Fouls on long balls and aerial challenges get called based on positioning. Similar to over-the-back in basketball. Powerful defenders can't attempt to leap over a forward who has established his stance.

Here are the disgressions that lead to free kicks from the Laws of the game:

quote:


kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:35 pm to
i know you push spanish soccer above all else, but i have no preference. i just want the rules to be even so that different styles can emerge and be successful...not calling games to help one style
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
50248 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

i know you push spanish soccer above all else, but i have no preference. i just want the rules to be even so that different styles can emerge and be successful...not calling games to help one style
your logic is absofrickinglutely fricked up.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:37 pm to
You are on a downward spiral.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:37 pm to
quote:

it´s all about dominion of the ball. people have to go through someone to get it, hence it´s whistled.


This

quote:

So, the ball was ALWAYS in contention (up for dispute), as the attacker never really had the ball under complete control, and close to his body.


And this
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

"failed" athletes


*Pours one out for Johann Smith*
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

your logic is absofrickinglutely fricked up.

because i believe that size and power should be equally treated as passing and possession?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

it´s all about dominion of the ball.

NOW it is, especially since the refs call a game that creates an incentive to play this way. remove that incentive and this style isn't as dominating

it's a simple economic argument

i believe that all of the variables should be treated equally
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