"Offense is the problem" - Page 10 - TigerDroppings.com

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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
26828 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

What that really mean when you aren't aligning it with SOS? Lots of losers in the top 1/2 of that category, fwiw. Let them play SEC schedules and see where they land


You wanna compare to the rest of the SEC? Since 2005, Miles' entire tenure, he has the 6th ranked offense out of the 12 teams (excluding the two new teams).

Since 2008...well lets just say his three best offenses came in his first three years and there's been a notable drop off. My guess, because I don't have the data just from 2008 on directly in front of me yet, is LSU will have the 8th to 10th best offense in the SEC since 2008 combined.






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AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Apr 2008
5259 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


Thanks to you both (ForeLSU and UnknownKnight). Interesting stuff. On the surface it just 'feels' like our O hasn't functioned properly (with rare exception) since '07. Some stats seem to really underscore that and others suggests things haven't been as bad as they seem.

IMO, we can do much, much better. Our struggles transcend personnel, OCs, injuries, place-in-the-schedule, etc.

I like Les. I understand why we underwent a paradigm shift after '08. But it is time for the pendulum to swing back, i.e., just as the free-wheeling approach costs us some wins in '08, the (overly) conservative approach has costs us some wins (and championships) in the seasons since.

Because we're so conservative none of our players ever reach their full potential (ok, there may be some exceptions, but it's just that, exceptions). It's one season (and career) long slog.









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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33511 posts
 Online 

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

2006 we averaged 6.6 yards per play on offense. 7th in the country.

2011 we averaged around ~5.6 yards per play lower than 50th in the country.

So there is one mighty big difference there. And to say 3 yards difference in starting field position is not a big deal is misleading. Especially when those three yards mean you are top 10 ranked or 70th ranked in the country.


not sure how you're making that ranking conclusion, post your data. The difference between the 10th ranked team and the 70th ranked team this year was 110 yards. Thats about 9 yards per drive if you assume 12 drives per game.

In addition, you can't simply ignore the 5 yard difference in where the kickoffs occured in 06 vs 11. Given that 11 had an average per play of 5.6, there's no reason to think they wouldn't have scored on the majority of their scoring drives if they were 3 yards longer.

as far as the yards per play goes, 06 certainly had more big play potential compared to 11. But 11 had more blowouts so they were pounding the ball late in the game to burn clock. Rankings have to be taken in context.



This post was edited on 1/15 at 7:35 pm


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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
26828 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


Can't post them now (on phone).

But (total pass yards + total rushing yards)/(pass attempts + rushing attempts)

I have all this data compiled for every team in the NCAA for the last 8 years. It is really telling (IMO) from 2008 on for LSU.






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theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
26828 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

In addition, you can't simply ignore the 5 yard difference in where the kickoffs occured in 06 vs 11. Given that 11 had an average per play of 5.6, there's no reason to think they wouldn't have scored on the majority of their scoring drives if they were 3 yards longer.


I was originally accounting for that difference. See my earlier posts in this thread. My point was special teams/defense made it easier to score for the 2011 team than other LSU teams of the past. By the way, look at 2010, that year has some messed up stats






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AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Apr 2008
5259 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


IMO, you two need to agree on what metrics show an O's functionality and go from there.

Have no idea how you can quantify "clutch" but the fact that out O couldn't punch it in vs UF when handed the ball inside the 10 is telling as is the inability to seal wins vs Bama ('12) and Clemson and no first half first downs vs UGA in '11 and being shut-out vs Bama (BCSCG).






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ForeLSU
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The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
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re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

My point was special teams/defense made it easier to score for the 2011 team than other LSU teams of the past.


and you've been proven wrong...






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ForeLSU
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Member since Sep 2003
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re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:


IMO, you two need to agree on what metrics show an O's functionality and go from there.

Have no idea how you can quantify "clutch"


this is only a stats debate. The argument, set forth by unknown, et. al, was that Chavis and special teams were the primary factor in 2011's offensive production. The numbers don't support that argument, although that was certainly a huge asset for the team and a big reason all but 2 games weren't in doubt.






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CP3LSU25
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since Feb 2009
34849 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


If Robert N comes we can hide our offensive problems.





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AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Apr 2008
5259 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


I understand that you both are crunching numbers. My point would be that some of the numbers included in the data pool don't shed any substantial light on how (dys)functional our O really is.

They don't factor in clutch and game situations. Our 99 yd drive vs UTenn last year was largely irrelevant. Our inability to score a TD before the end of the half vs UF was huge.

It needs to be agreed on what charcterizes the functionality of an offense.






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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
33877 posts
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re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

this is only a stats debate. The argument, set forth by unknown, et. al, was that Chavis and special teams were the primary factor in 2011's offensive production. The numbers don't support that argument, although that was certainly a huge asset for the team and a big reason all but 2 games weren't in doubt.


2011 was the best offensive year of the last 5 and we went 13-1. It still wasn't considered a strength. The hope was it was the beginning of being an improved team offensively. We regressed this year. We became better passing the ball but had a harder time running(doesn't make much sense). Sure we had injuries on the line and a first year QB but we aren't the only team facing obstacles. Players have come and gone over the last 5 years but its still a struggle. So what is the issue....

1. No issues the offense is fine?
2. Lack of execution?
3. Play calling?
4. Coaching?
5. Lacking talent?
6. System?






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HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
New Orleans Saints Fan
Bossier City
Member since Jan 2010
4789 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


2-6






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33511 posts
 Online 

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

My point would be that some of the numbers included in the data pool don't shed any substantial light on how (dys)functional our O really is.


all numbers have to be taken in context...my only point in this thread was to show that the numbers being used by others were erroneous.






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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
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re: "Offense is the problem"


I agree with the exception of 5





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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33511 posts
 Online 

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

So what is the issue....


I'll post my thoughts at some point in the next couple of days, but the problem is most folks want to apply as simple, single-order cause-effect blame to the issue, and it's more complex than that. But the fact is, the 2011 offense was an above average offense. It just had no solution to the Bama defense.






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Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
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re: "Offense is the problem"


I think you are over analyzing the problems. Fact of the matter is the offense is not pulling its weight. Even last year with what you have said was a good offense we struggled against the really good defenses. 9 points in 8 quarters against Bama is crap!

Also last year I believe LSU was one of the leaders in turnover margin. If you don't turn the ball over and the defense is opportunistic it will hide the obvious deficiencies in stats on offense but the eye test still told most people we were not a well balanced offense.






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Fat Bastard
New Orleans Saints Fan
Paradise
Member since Mar 2009
15623 posts

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

My point was special teams/defense made it easier to score for the 2011 team than other LSU teams of the past.


correct. That is undeniable. not sure how this thread got twisted into semantics into drive starts and scoring drive starts after that. The D and ST scored a bunch. Compare that with the 06 D and ST.

then just look at the damn offensive rankings.

case closed.






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33511 posts
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re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

I think you are over analyzing the problems. Fact of the matter is the offense is not pulling its weight. Even last year with what you have said was a good offense we struggled against the really good defenses. 9 points in 8 quarters against Bama is crap!


did I not say the offense was ineffective vs. Bama? It wasn't a great offense, but the staff's strategy for that offense was effective. There are issues for sure, but to simply chalk up 2011's stats to defense and special teams isn't being objective...that's my only point.






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33511 posts
 Online 

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

The D and ST scored a bunch. Compare that with the 06 D and ST.


those scores weren't included in the stats....please try to check your biases at the door and look at the data. No one is claiming they're aren't issues. But 2011 did not benefit more than 2006 from defense and special teams with respect to starting position and scoring offense.






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Mayhawman
LSU Fan
Somewhere in the middle of SEC West
Member since Dec 2009
4341 posts
 Online 

re: "Offense is the problem"


quote:

The D and ST scored a bunch. Compare that with the 06 D and ST.
This is the mark of good coaching, no?
Miles has always featured +avg D and ST, yet you wish to use it against hi.






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