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el duderino III 
Texas Fan
austin
Member since Jul 2011
1426 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 9:59 am to WikiTiger)
so Tor activity is more easily monitored than normal bitcoin transactions? Are you making the argument that ICE or whoever would be unable to determine who is engaged in the trading of bitcoins over the standard internet?
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:01 am to el duderino III)
quote:
this is what I keep saying, but yall keep ignoring - i dont give a shite about bitcoin.
you don't have to
i think the main failing assumption that you make is that things like bitcoin would require a large % of the country to adapt. it's not a currency in the normative sense, so this isn't necessary
quote:
and the federal government will have a LONG time to work with
honestly the last thing the feds would want to do is try to crack down on bitcoin
all that will do is force the private market to adapt and create even more secure systems
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:03 am to WikiTiger)
quote:
WordPress.com just made big news by announcing they will start accepting bitcoins.
things like this are very significant
regardless of government backing/approval, if the private market can use this tool in trading resources, then it will
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el duderino III
Texas Fan
austin
Member since Jul 2011
1426 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:09 am to WikiTiger)
quote:
Then why do you keep propping up the status quo? You spread fear propaganda like, "OMG prices could rise due to China's currency manipulation no longer working." Your whole assumption is that central planning and currency manipulation is a good thing.
Why do you fear a free market?
jesus christ, ok im done. you understood about 10% of that post, and completely misinterpreted the rest...i dont know why im discussing economic issues with people with zero understanding of economics, then claim to be more pro "free market" than me, a lifelong libertarian.
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Decatur 
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2007
14891 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:09 am to WikiTiger)
quote:
The only way to get "hacked" would be if someone gained knowledge of your private key. They could do that if you stored it in an insecure manner on your PC. But that wouldn't be a hack of bitcoin, it would be a hack of your PC. You should securely store your private key.
So if someone manages to hack me and steals all of my bitcoin, what is my recourse?
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:13 am to Decatur)
quote:
So if someone manages to hack me and steals all of my bitcoin, what is my recourse?
likely nothing
if somebody steals your wallet, what is your recourse for the cash in the wallet? nothing
i'm not talking about criminal responses...it's theft and it's a crime regardless.
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el duderino III
Texas Fan
austin
Member since Jul 2011
1426 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:13 am to Decatur)
there is none
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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
63236 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:14 am to buddhavista)
What is the advantage to the average internet user for using bitcoins rather than a debit or credit card?
And by "average" I'm not referring to a bitcoin user who is attempting to hide the purchase of an illegal substance or item.
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
 Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:16 am to el duderino III)
quote:
so Tor activity is more easily monitored than normal bitcoin transactions?
tor exit nodes are.
quote:
Are you making the argument that ICE or whoever would be unable to determine who is engaged in the trading of bitcoins over the standard internet?
yes, as long as the people take proper steps to maintain their anonymity. bitcoin is only as anonymous as you make it. you can blow your own cover if you want.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:16 am to LSURussian)
quote:
What is the advantage to the average internet user for using bitcoins rather than a debit or credit card?
right now i don't see one for me, so i don't use bitcoin
i'd prefer to use bitcoin over paypal for electronic transfers, though...but i don't have other people who have bitcoins to transact with. hell they just got paypal 
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:18 am to Decatur)
quote:
So if someone manages to hack me and steals all of my bitcoin, what is my recourse?
It's still a crime to steal stuff of value.
Perhaps you can go to your local police or other government law enforcement agencies for help. You think they will?
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:18 am to LSURussian)
quote:
What is the advantage to the average internet user for using bitcoins rather than a debit or credit card?
speed, anonymity, low or non-existent transaction fees
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:20 am to el duderino III)
quote:
jesus christ, ok im done. you understood about 10% of that post, and completely misinterpreted the rest...i dont know why im discussing economic issues with people with zero understanding of economics, then claim to be more pro "free market" than me, a lifelong libertarian.
riiiiight. and yet you keep on displaying your complete lack of understanding of the technology with every post you make.
you confuse tor and bitcoin and you expect me to take your knowledge of this stuff seriously?
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el duderino III
Texas Fan
austin
Member since Jul 2011
1426 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:23 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
if the private market can use this tool in trading resources, then it will
of course it will, it's not causing any problems yet. If it stays that way, as a niche market currency, then gov'ts probably wont bother doing anything, which is likely the most probable outcome. But if it keeps expanding to the point that it enables large scale tax aversion and central bank policy subversion, then I promise you, both the federal government, and the federal reserve will do absolutely everything in their power to curtail it's use. If that happens, and you think bitcoin or any other virtual currency comes out of that the winner, then in a sense you're saying that you believe in the power of computers over the power of bullets. i disagree, but call me old fashioned...
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Decatur
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2007
14891 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
if somebody steals your wallet, what is your recourse for the cash in the wallet? nothing
Has anyone ever faced criminal prosecution for stealing bitcoins (for the act of stealing and not for hacking/intrusion)?
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:28 am to el duderino III)
quote:
But if it keeps expanding to the point that it enables large scale tax aversion and central bank policy subversion, then I promise you, both the federal government, and the federal reserve will do absolutely everything in their power to curtail it's use.
possibly, but in the end, what can they do? shut this one down, and a more secure/anonymous version emerges from the market
quote:
If that happens, and you think bitcoin or any other virtual currency comes out of that the winner, then in a sense you're saying that you believe in the power of computers over the power of bullets.
less powerful devices have beaten bullets before
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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
63236 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:29 am to WikiTiger)
quote:
What is the advantage to the average internet user for using bitcoins rather than a debit or credit card?
quote:
speed
It's faster than PayPal which takes all of 5 seconds to use to buy something on the internet? The same for buying on Amazon. What's it going to save me.....3 seconds?? 
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anonymity
Why does the 'average' person care about anonymity? When I buy old coins on eBay and use my PayPal account, should I be concerned about anonymity? I can't think of a reason to do so but maybe I'm missing something. I can understand the need for anonymity if I was buying dope or a shoulder launched surface-to-air missile but why else???
quote:
low or non-existent transaction fees
As a buyer on eBay, PayPal does not charge me any transaction fees so there is no disadvantage there. I've never sold anything on eBay so I don't know if there is a transaction fee in that case.
When I buy on Amazon or any other website I can think of that I've bought stuff on, there are no transaction fees.
So, again, what is the advantage to the 'average' internet user?
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:29 am to Decatur)
quote:
Has anyone ever faced criminal prosecution for stealing bitcoins (for the act of stealing and not for hacking/intrusion)?
no idea. it's a crime regardless of whether a prosecutor is too stupid to prosecute, though
other than violating a ton of federal stuff, it's a taking of something of value. most theft laws are written that way
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:29 am to el duderino III)
quote:
If that happens, and you think bitcoin or any other virtual currency comes out of that the winner, then in a sense you're saying that you believe in the power of computers over the power of bullets. i disagree, but call me old fashioned...
I believe in the power of technology to be revolutionary.
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
38302 posts
Online
| re: Iranian's discover bitcoin (Posted on 11/30/12 at 10:33 am to LSURussian)
quote:
It's faster than PayPal which takes all of 5 seconds to use to buy something on the internet? The same for buying on Amazon. What's it going to save me.....3 seconds??
PayPal to PayPal may be fast. But what about PayPal to your bank account? How long does that take?
ACH clearing is slow.
quote:
Why does the 'average' person care about anonymity?
Many people do. You may not.
quote:
As a buyer on eBay, PayPal does not charge me any transaction fees so there is no disadvantage there. I've never sold anything on eBay so I don't know if there is a transaction fee in that case.
When I buy on Amazon or any other website I can think of that I've bought stuff on, there are no transaction fees.
So how did this get changed to PayPal when you initially asked about debit and credit cards? Did you realize that you lost the argument and decided to instead substitute in a technology that more closely resembles bitcoin so that your points would seem more valid?
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