History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5280 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

That's the thing. It is a right. We are a modern country.


It is not a right!!!

quote:

How do you ratify forced automobile insurance? Let's hear it.


Simple, don't drive not forced to get automobile insurance. Choices and consequences. What if I don't get car insurance and wreck my car...is it my right to have it paid for by others? NO!!!

You fail!!!

Guess what if I don't get the car insurance my car doesn't get fixed...period.

That's the thing...it isn't a "right". See I can say that.






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22095 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

That's the thing. It is a right.
Why?

quote:

We are a modern country.
Is not an answer. Technological progress does not imply free healthcare.

quote:

How do you ratify forced automobile insurance?
First, it's not done on the federal level. Second, liability insurance doesn't cover you it covers others you may harm. Medical insurance benefits you.

But to use your analogy... if you run your car into a pole, do you believe you should be able to go to any body shop and demand your fender get fixed whether you can pay or not?






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McChowder
LSU Fan
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
2797 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:



You are correct.

But as long as we have such a large segment of our population who refuses to understand this, our system will be piecemeal and inefficient.

Well lets set the record straight, healthcare isn't a constitutional right in so far as it hasn't been ruled in the courts to be. But, such a distinction is moot because the law forbids people who are in need of treatment from being denied it. My question to you is, what's your point? Even if it were a constitutional right to provide care, the issue of whether its a right to force others to pay for your insurance would be a completely separate issue. And no, forcing others to pay for a product for you to use is not, should not, should never be a "right".






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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
8385 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

I have a right to a job.


Screw that. I have a right to make $600k a year sitting on my arse and watching Netflix all day.






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Womski
Army Fan
Squire Creek
Member since Aug 2011
1435 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


Force others to pay? PPACA requires you to buy your own insurance.

I think one of the myths is that we are paying for poor black people's healthcare under the law. I hear that a lot from my buddies at the deer camp.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

This is foolishness. Let's accept the (sic) premise that one should not be responsible for themselves if it's "no fault of their own". That means, the tax payers must pay for it... why should it become their fault you are sick?

So, you were against the eradication of Polio in America?

Why should people who might never get the disease have to pay for others not to get it?

TA, I'm afraid we probably have VERY different ideas of what a humane, civilized society should be. Just because everyone who can pitches in to help those in need doesn't make it the "fault" of those helping.

But it seems that you cannot think philisophically about health care, because you immediately pull the, "Well, I don't want to pay for it!" card. With that attitude, we would never have eradicated Polio.

The problem is that we have all these duplicate systems of admistering health care, Medicare, Medicaide, VA, whatever system Congress is on, ACA, public hospitals...

If we coulsd actually agree that it is the right thing for our society to provide health care to our people, the whole bunch of systems could be tossed out and we could design a comprehensive system that would be more efficient. You may hate the ACA, but we were in trouble before Obama ever took office. It's not the ACA that's the problem.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
50468 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

quote:

Do you understand what Obamacare will cost?
No.
Wait!

The Single greatest National Security threat we face is deficit spending, and the National Debt.

You feel history will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of Obamacare.
Yet you haven't a clue as to what it will cost?
Frankly, judging by the OP and your flippant response to the question, you don't give a rat's arse about cost.
quote:

And neither do you.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

And just whose fricking fault is that?

Why don't you ask them yourself instead of me?

They're all over this thread!






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA




Sincerely,

- The Great Thread Highjacker






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
50468 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

PPACA requires you to buy your own insurance.
bullshite!






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22095 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

PPACA requires you to buy your own insurance.
False. It subsidizes premiums to 4X the poverty level. That $91,000/yr for a family of 3.






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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
9054 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

It is a right.


OK, I'll play along.

Let's say it is a right as you claim, even though it is not spelled out in the U. S. Constitution.

The Constitution does afford me some clearly defined rights, like freedom of religion, free speech/press, and right to bear arms.

Where you and others who think like you go wrong is in assuming that because something is a right that the gubmint should pay for it.

If that is so, then why isn't the gubmint funding an expansion for my church, paying all my magazine/newspaper subscriptions and giving me free weapons?

Stay away from my wallet, you little leech. Pay for your own healthcare.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

Still ignoring the questions I asked. Deflection after name calling....same ol play book.

No, I just find it more gratifying to converse with more intelligent, level-headed souls like TA. Sorry, no offense.

Why don't you go ahead and just carry on without me. Thanks.






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Scruffy
USA Fan
Member since Jul 2011
28878 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

That's the thing. It is a right. We are a modern country.
What does that even mean?






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50Mullets
LSU Fan
A more civilized age
Member since Oct 2012
1433 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

How do you ratify forced automobile insurance? Let's hear it.


No one is required to drive a car. They are free to walk everywhere if they so choose. They are free to own a car if they so choose. They can drive it on their own property without insurance all they want. When they take it off their own property onto public roads they pose a risk to other members of the public and insurance requirements are the mechanism by which the public ensures they are protected.






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

The rest is essentially charity practiced by those evil doctors and hospitals.

Why do you think they're evil? All of the ones I have known personally have been model citizens.

quote:

They are not equivalent.

I know what de facto means, otherwise I wouldn't have used it. It was pointed out that we have a right to health care - which we do, and not just emergencty care. There's Medicaid. But first, you have to get rid of all your assests to get it.

quote:

By your definition it is not a right.

Wrong.

Did we have the de facto rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness before the DOI? These things are endowed by our creator, not by the DOI. We had them "de facto" before the DOI, but they were officially established with the DOI.

The 9th Amendment implies that we have other rights not prescribed by the Constitution, what might these be? Why did the founders include the 9th Amendment?

I submit that one of them is the right to health care.






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DapperDan
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2012
1226 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

I know what de facto means


quote:

we have a right to health care - which we do, and not just emergencty care. There's Medicaid.


do you know the difference between health care and health insurance?






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WildTchoupitoulas
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2010
14584 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

The design of a program which predictably will increase healthcare costs is not the stuff of positive legacy.

I agree. But we cannot design a system worthy of positive legacy until we (at least reasonable people) can agree that health care is a basic right.

Otherwise you get the shite we're currently stuck with - and which is driving us to bankruptcy.






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22095 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

So, you were against the eradication of Polio in America?
How would you ever draw the conclusion that I'm a proponent of polio? Seriously?

quote:

TA, I'm afraid we probably have VERY different ideas of what a humane, civilized society should be.
I bet we DON'T!! I'm NOT saying people should NOT help those in need. NOT AT ALL! I think it's our moral obligation to do so. But that's just it... it's a MORAL OBLIGATION. And it's not governments' place to enforce morality. Nor do I think government-sanctioned theft is a moral action. Money surrendered out of coercion and duress isn't charity. Not in the least. Let's extend the concept...

If your neighbor comes over to your house, points a gun in your chest and says "give me money for my kid's cancer treatment" he's a criminal. But when the government does it... we consider it "honorable" and exercising a "right". Functionally, there is no difference, except the government owns the courts!

quote:

"Well, I don't want to pay for it!" card.
Bull shite. I don't mind paying for it. I deplore being FORCED to pay for one's definition of morality.

quote:

The problem is that we have all these duplicate systems of admistering health care, Medicare, Medicaide, VA, whatever system Congress is on, ACA, public hospitals...
Right. So let's solve that problem. Eliminate them. Everybody pays for themselves. Nothing will be simpler, cheaper, more effecient, more effective, and free of corruption and waste. You can have a small footprint, or you can cover everyone. But in a country of 311,591,917 citizens you can't have both.

quote:

If we coulsd actually agree that it is the right thing for our society to provide health care to our people
It isn't what's best for our society. A society constructed upon dependence on a slim minority of it's citizens (aka "the rich") isn't healthy --regardless of how many doctors it provides.

Dependency based upon disparity of income isn't a trait of healthy culture. If so, the antebellum south would be a model of "health".



This post was edited on 11/29 at 1:35 pm


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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
50468 posts

re: History will be kind to Barack Obama, mainly because of PPACA


quote:

But we cannot design a system worthy of positive legacy until we (at least reasonable people) can agree that health care is a basic right.
That is simply not true.

There are many many underperforming or broken aspects of our healthcare system. Obamacare addresses very few, and to compound the problem creates its own new ones.






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