Why is it ok to steal media? - Page 6 - TigerDroppings.com

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CAD703X
Toledo Fan
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Member since Jul 2008
27131 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

I have literally ZERO fear that people will stop creating and recording new music






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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
43882 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


I'm the dinosaur yet you're the one suggesting tried and true business models from 1975. I'm not afraid of paradigm shifts either. My point is the paradigm has shifted and its the artists turn to fire back. Instead of acting like victims, they should stop giving you free shite. You don't have a right to free shit, and you are demanding artists give you their work for no pay, which is an unsustainable model.

I think indie will go back to pressing physical media and as Freaux suggested, creating their own Spotify-like service that only has certain bands. Matador and Merge (and others) get together and out their catalogs on a service they own. You're the one who thinks its going to stay the same. Actually, you want it to get worse for artists. They are not passive people by nature. There will be a new paradigm shift because the current market can't sustain itself. It's a system designed to breed shittier and shittier music. On that front -- success!






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Jcorye1
LSU Fan
Tom Terrific (greater than) Brees
Member since Dec 2007
29457 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Because you think it's too expensive, that makes it ok to steal??



If your prices are too high, a black market is bound to happen.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Instead of acting like victims, they should stop giving you free shite.


You don't understand: THEY CAN'T.


quote:

I think indie will go back to pressing physical media




yea, good luck with that.

and when it gets ripped and put on the file sharing networks, you'll be whining again.

quote:

creating their own Spotify-like service that only has certain bands. Matador and Merge (and others) get together and out their catalogs on a service they own.


:rotflmao:

laughable too

No one wants multiple services with limited artists. That is an unrealistic business plan.

quote:

There will be a new paradigm shift because the current market can't sustain itself.


Maybe. But it won't be what you described.

quote:

It's a system designed to breed shittier and shittier music. On that front -- success!


wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh







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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
21578 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

I'm the dinosaur yet you're the one suggesting tried and true business models from 1975. I'm not afraid of paradigm shifts either. My point is the paradigm has shifted and its the artists turn to fire back. Instead of acting like victims, they should stop giving you free shite. You don't have a right to free shit, and you are demanding artists give you their work for no pay, which is an unsustainable model.


I'm thinking artists need to go really out of the box.

How can they build an experience that:

1. Aligns with their artistry
2. Opens up new streams of revenue
3. Is consumable, but not reproducible

Such is the great question of making art relevant in the 21st century.

I don't think selling more stuff and touring is the answer. I think find a new way to create revenue-generating musical experiences that support their identity is.

We need the music video of the 21st century to bring the passion back to fans of music.



This post was edited on 11/27 at 4:04 pm


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Qwerty
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2104 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

If your prices are too high, a black market is bound to happen.


That's irrelevant. The whole question is, is it ok?






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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
21578 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

yea, good luck with that.

and when it gets ripped and put on the file sharing networks, you'll be whining again.


They need to create a reason for it to be physical.

Look at the new wifi bulbs for inspiration....

A poster that can stream music through your device. Wall-art/album that does the same.

quote:

No one wants multiple services with limited artists. That is an unrealistic business plan.


They need to form an umbrella tiered service.

So Bands organize under smaller umbrellas that protect their art, those streams are packaged together in tiered pricing plans by larger, independent providers without record pressure.

Right now for the most part, people have to pay a price for ALL music on spotify. What if you paid to package "labels" of music together so that more of your money goes to bands you like rather than being infinitely divided among everyone.

Include with options a commercial and non-commercial option, create new sources of dedicated and targeted ad revenue.

"Labels" basically need to be come the "Radio Stations" of the past. And collectively sell their rights through bigger outlets. Especially now that internet radio is available everywhere.

We need stream aggregators, not just streaming companies.



Yes, I will take charge at a Record Label to do this.



This post was edited on 11/27 at 4:05 pm


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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
43882 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


Well, we have seen some artists go out of the box and create "fully immersive" shows that are beyond mere music. Sort of like the Octopus Project incorporating visual media as well. Or LCD Soundsystem making a movie.

You'll also continue to see bands license their music for commercial use. Movies, TV, video games, and commercials are keeping them afloat.

And wiki, this has honestly been a good thread with lots of spirited yet substantive back and forth. I don't agree with CAD, but he made a coherent and engaging argument. If you don't have anything useful to add, go sit back in the corner. Grown ups are talking.






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Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
43882 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

"Labels" basically need to be come the "Radio Stations" of the past. And collectively sell their rights through bigger outlets. Especially now that internet radio is available everywhere.

You also may see more co-operation from like minded labels. Indie labels have literally spent decades building brand loyalty. I know that if something comes out on Sub Pop, it has a certain aesthetic. As they say, no one wear a T-shirt that says "Warner Brothers" but Sub Pop can sell "Loser" t-shirts advertising their label. The majors do not have this same brand power as the smaller labels. The smaller labels need to leverage this.






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CAD703X
Toledo Fan
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
27131 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

If your product is consistently shitty, a black market is bound to happen.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42560 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


Wow, I'm not wading thru all of this, but on the one hand its not a good comparison to a physical product, because if you steal a car or a stick of gum, the owner doesn't have it any more, but if you copy a movie or music, he still has it.

That said, I'm sure those justifing it because the owners of said property won't make it available in the format they want it at an extremely low price.






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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
21578 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Well, we have seen some artists go out of the box and create "fully immersive" shows that are beyond mere music. Sort of like the Octopus Project incorporating visual media as well. Or LCD Soundsystem making a movie.

You'll also continue to see bands license their music for commercial use. Movies, TV, video games, and commercials are keeping them afloat.


Good points. I still think they can get more innovative. Be creative!






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Tiger Vision
LSU Fan
Walk-Town
Member since Jan 2005
1807 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


Whenever the industry can make it convenient and easy for me to go to one location and get just about any movie or tv show I want, on demand and commercial free the I will be more inclined to pay for it. Right now I have that for free with navi-x. If a bunch of gurus can get together and provide me that for free why can't the industry with billions of dollars in resources provide me with something equivalent to what a few weekend warriors can put together. The answer is that they could but they want to control rights and fight over everything. You ever paid for netflix? I have and it has crap for content. Ever watch a movie or tv show and roughly 1/3 of the time is commercials? I don't have an extra hour or 2 each day to watch commercials and don't want to subscribe to cable and 3-4 other services just to get content. The solution is for the industry to get itself together and provide the customers with what they want. They currently are not listening.





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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
21578 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

You also may see more co-operation from like minded labels. Indie labels have literally spent decades building brand loyalty. I know that if something comes out on Sub Pop, it has a certain aesthetic. As they say, no one wear a T-shirt that says "Warner Brothers" but Sub Pop can sell "Loser" t-shirts advertising their label. The majors do not have this same brand power as the smaller labels. The smaller labels need to leverage this.


Exactly. But even then, how do you leverage that loyalty and what do you do with it?

Creating social media spaces? No.
Creating Youtube Channels? Done, No revenue


Creating an "App Channel" for Rokus and TVs and what not would be my first play. Content is easy to create and can bring back the music video. People enjoy app channels.

Then I would move on to reorganizing the streaming business into a more manageable and profitable pie.

Then I would sit in my office and try to answer the question: "Why do people listen to music and how can I generate revenue from that?"

Artists would get mad turning everything into a business, but such is life.


<This is coming from a recent sell-out too>






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42560 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

If your prices are too high, a black market is bound to happen.


No, if your prices are too high, some one else will offer the same serivice for less and you either adapt or go out of business. The consumers here are basically asking for commodity pricing, but different specialty products. That's not sustainable.






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CAD703X
Toledo Fan
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
27131 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

That said, I'm sure those justifing it because the owners of said property won't make it available in the format they want it at an extremely low price.


right, but remember when FM stations would have commercial free "album night" in the 1970s/1980s? has everyone forgotten about this?

they would literally say 'ok, side 2 of alan parson's project i robot starting in 5..4...3..' and you would hit RECORD on your tape player.

again, this is such bull shite it makes me angry. hypocritical riaa execs are unhappy because they've lost control.

as long as you were making tapes from FM signals, they were happy. they don't like the fact the quality of the recording now is always 1:1 (in the case of FLAC/lossless) and nearly 1:1 for VBR (variable bit rate)

if this was going to be an issue, they should have banned the sale of blank tapes in the 1970s and banned the sale of these.




This post was edited on 11/27 at 4:27 pm


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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Feb 2006
21578 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

Whenever the industry can make it convenient and easy for me to go to one location and get just about any movie or tv show I want, on demand and commercial free the I will be more inclined to pay for it.


Wrong approach imo, Advertising is a necessary evil.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

And wiki, this has honestly been a good thread with lots of spirited yet substantive back and forth. I don't agree with CAD, but he made a coherent and engaging argument. If you don't have anything useful to add, go sit back in the corner. Grown ups are talking.


Oh get off your high horse. I've contributed significantly to this thread.

You are just having a serious problem accepting the truth of changing markets.

I envision a world where people will still create great music without as much profit motive. Your whole argument seems to be stuck on the profit motive, and I don't even think that is what generates the best art, but maybe that's another thread.






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H-Town Tiger
Toledo Fan
Member since Nov 2003
42560 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

don't want to subscribe to cable and 3-4 other services just to get content. The solution is for the industry to get itself together and provide the customers with what they want


if I'm reading you demands right, you want content without commercials for basically free. That doesn't sound like a sustainable business model. Thru all the whining that people use about this, you never address the costs. If Cost > Revenue, they are not going to stay in business long. Creating a song can be very cheap, but not so for a movie or TV show. If the ROI is too low, why should they offer the product?






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CAD703X
Toledo Fan
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
27131 posts

re: Why is it ok to steal media?


quote:

WikiTiger


i got kicked out of my daughter's play (the music man) because i was recording it on a FLIP.

a fricking flip. in my lap, discreet..no flash..on the front row.

when i got mad, the people in charge of the play told me in order to put the play on they had to agree to the copyright owner's demands to ban recordings. the fear is that the COPYRIGHTED MUSIC would end up on youtube.

my 11 year old daughter's school play.

frick the long arm of the RIAA



This post was edited on 11/27 at 4:32 pm


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