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Some fans forget just how "lucky" Nick Saban has been.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:25 am
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:25 am
The one thing that has always down right confused me concerning LSU football, is the idea that some fans hold that LSU has only been successful under Les Miles because he is "lucky". If Les wins because of luck (which is so overblown it's not even funny), then logic would have it that he only loses because of (bad) luck. Never see that argument from the Negatigers out there.
But it got me thinking, does anyone remember how "lucky" Nick Saban, the coach so many Les-haters presume would have led LSU to 4 or 5 National Titles had he never left, has been in his title runs. Let's go back:
2003: LSU lost a home game to Florida and freshman QB Chris Leak. After that week, there were a number of teams undefeated or with 1 loss still ahead of LSU. Miami lost two in a row to get to two losses, FSU loses another one late to get to two losses, Defending champ Ohio State loses its only game to Michigan under Jim Tressel the last week of the regular season, who already had two losses so both are out, opening the door for USC or LSU. Then after all of that, because strength of schedule was a factor back then, meaningless games between Notre Dame and Syracuse, Boise State and Hawaii would both need to go LSU's way to jump USC in the BCS computers. They both did. Not that that LSU team wasn't 100% deserving of being there, but it easily could not have happened.
2009: This on paper is Saban's best team, they went undefeated after all, avenging a loss to UF in the SEC title game. But let's not forget the "gritty win" they got 12-10 over a crap Lane Kiffin Tennessee team at home (the same score LSU was getting shite for against Auburn this year) on a freaking blocked field goal, the Patrick Peterson INT that wasn't in Bryant-Denny that could have flipped that game, the last minute comeback against LSU, and let's not forget the actual National Title Game. Colt McCoy goes out the opening drive of the game, and Bama is up 24-6 at half. The incredible Bama team then managed to be sitting with a 24-21 lead with 3 minutes left in the game, with UT having possession and all the momentum for the comeback with the 2ND STRING QB. Only the turnover and late score made that game look like a dominant win... and we can only guess how it would have been different if McCoy not had been out and Texas not been losing so bad by halftime.
2011: We all know too well this story. LSU goes into Tuscaloosa and beats Bama. End of story. But wait, not only did OSU and Stanford not finish undefeated, but Oregon also lost a 2nd game to USC. It seems had they finished with only the one loss and PAC champs, it would have been hard to give Bama a rematch being in the same conference, over a rematch with Oregon, or just playing OSU for the first time. Not only did all of those things have to happen in the last three weeks, but the voters had to ignore the same logic that put Florida in the 2006 game instead of Michigan, and LSU in the 2007 game and not Georgia (a non division winner)... for an SEC west REMATCH at that. Not to mention the times that when Nebraska played for it all without winning the division, and FSU played for it all though they lost to Miami who finished 3rd in the BCS... the system was worked on and tweaked because the sentiment was that SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Not saying Bama wasn't better than those other teams last year, they were. But the "most deserving" argument of the past all of a sudden went out the window for "best teams" last year. Sometimes better teams lose, and because we don't have a playoff, that just sucks for you. (LSU 2006 anyone?)
Then we come to this year. There are still some games left, Bama could lose to Georgia eliminating them from the BCS. But the fact that 2 of the 3 teams that were ahead of one loss Bama would lose the VERY NEXT WEEK after the Bama loss to A&M is incredibly fortunate. Auburn didn't get that fortunate in 2004, Georgia didn't get that fortunate in 2002. Both of those teams were really good, good enough to win it all. Things just didn't fall their way.
Point being, there always seem to be a lot of people that credit Alabama's success to Saban's coaching ability, but LSU wins in spite of Miles coaching ability, he's just gotten lucky. I just wanted to remind some of those LSU fans out there that perception is everything. Just about every National Title in this non-playoff world requires some good fortune. What Saban has done at LSU and Alabama is truly impressive, there is no arguing that. It just must be noted that 2 of his 3 titles could not have happened, 1 of which could be argued should not have happened. 4 National Titles at the end of this year would put him in college football lore, but a couple breaks falling the other way, and he could just be like any other of the top coaches in the game right now.
As always
But it got me thinking, does anyone remember how "lucky" Nick Saban, the coach so many Les-haters presume would have led LSU to 4 or 5 National Titles had he never left, has been in his title runs. Let's go back:
2003: LSU lost a home game to Florida and freshman QB Chris Leak. After that week, there were a number of teams undefeated or with 1 loss still ahead of LSU. Miami lost two in a row to get to two losses, FSU loses another one late to get to two losses, Defending champ Ohio State loses its only game to Michigan under Jim Tressel the last week of the regular season, who already had two losses so both are out, opening the door for USC or LSU. Then after all of that, because strength of schedule was a factor back then, meaningless games between Notre Dame and Syracuse, Boise State and Hawaii would both need to go LSU's way to jump USC in the BCS computers. They both did. Not that that LSU team wasn't 100% deserving of being there, but it easily could not have happened.
2009: This on paper is Saban's best team, they went undefeated after all, avenging a loss to UF in the SEC title game. But let's not forget the "gritty win" they got 12-10 over a crap Lane Kiffin Tennessee team at home (the same score LSU was getting shite for against Auburn this year) on a freaking blocked field goal, the Patrick Peterson INT that wasn't in Bryant-Denny that could have flipped that game, the last minute comeback against LSU, and let's not forget the actual National Title Game. Colt McCoy goes out the opening drive of the game, and Bama is up 24-6 at half. The incredible Bama team then managed to be sitting with a 24-21 lead with 3 minutes left in the game, with UT having possession and all the momentum for the comeback with the 2ND STRING QB. Only the turnover and late score made that game look like a dominant win... and we can only guess how it would have been different if McCoy not had been out and Texas not been losing so bad by halftime.
2011: We all know too well this story. LSU goes into Tuscaloosa and beats Bama. End of story. But wait, not only did OSU and Stanford not finish undefeated, but Oregon also lost a 2nd game to USC. It seems had they finished with only the one loss and PAC champs, it would have been hard to give Bama a rematch being in the same conference, over a rematch with Oregon, or just playing OSU for the first time. Not only did all of those things have to happen in the last three weeks, but the voters had to ignore the same logic that put Florida in the 2006 game instead of Michigan, and LSU in the 2007 game and not Georgia (a non division winner)... for an SEC west REMATCH at that. Not to mention the times that when Nebraska played for it all without winning the division, and FSU played for it all though they lost to Miami who finished 3rd in the BCS... the system was worked on and tweaked because the sentiment was that SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Not saying Bama wasn't better than those other teams last year, they were. But the "most deserving" argument of the past all of a sudden went out the window for "best teams" last year. Sometimes better teams lose, and because we don't have a playoff, that just sucks for you. (LSU 2006 anyone?)
Then we come to this year. There are still some games left, Bama could lose to Georgia eliminating them from the BCS. But the fact that 2 of the 3 teams that were ahead of one loss Bama would lose the VERY NEXT WEEK after the Bama loss to A&M is incredibly fortunate. Auburn didn't get that fortunate in 2004, Georgia didn't get that fortunate in 2002. Both of those teams were really good, good enough to win it all. Things just didn't fall their way.
Point being, there always seem to be a lot of people that credit Alabama's success to Saban's coaching ability, but LSU wins in spite of Miles coaching ability, he's just gotten lucky. I just wanted to remind some of those LSU fans out there that perception is everything. Just about every National Title in this non-playoff world requires some good fortune. What Saban has done at LSU and Alabama is truly impressive, there is no arguing that. It just must be noted that 2 of his 3 titles could not have happened, 1 of which could be argued should not have happened. 4 National Titles at the end of this year would put him in college football lore, but a couple breaks falling the other way, and he could just be like any other of the top coaches in the game right now.
As always
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:32 am to EveryonesACoach
I agree with all of that shite.
frick the Miles haters.
frick the Miles haters.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:33 am to EveryonesACoach
a tad long but content-wise, not a bad first post.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:34 am to EveryonesACoach
Thanks. I didn't know any of that.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:49 am to EveryonesACoach
2001 Got into SEC championship game with 3 loses. Which might not happen again.
We win that game because Tenn was their own worst enemy by knocking Rohan Davey out of the game.
We win that game because Tenn was their own worst enemy by knocking Rohan Davey out of the game.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:52 am to EveryonesACoach
I am arguing this with someone right now. Saban has made the most of his 3 chances when he gets a team there is the only thing. But look at these records...8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, 9-3, 7-6, 12-2, 14-0, 10-3, 13-1. Only 3 out of 10 seasons have less than 2 losses. Followed up his first 2 NC's with 9-3 and 10-3. Winning dominate just does not happen all the time, it takes so much luck with injuries and schedule and a few lucky bounces have to go your way too.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:11 am to EveryonesACoach
Agreed - Bama was lucky to win in 09, and yes, injuries are part of the game, but can you imagine if they'd lost their starting QB on the first drive also? Who knows how it might have turned out, but they waltzed into that win.
And last year - can't even talk about it - did NOT deserve that chance - can't ever convince me otherwise.
So while no doubt they are strong, to annoint Saban as the coaching messiah based on their last couple of NCs is a reach. Especially when they, like us and numerous others, have blown games they could have won. Happens to every team, including his.
And last year - can't even talk about it - did NOT deserve that chance - can't ever convince me otherwise.
So while no doubt they are strong, to annoint Saban as the coaching messiah based on their last couple of NCs is a reach. Especially when they, like us and numerous others, have blown games they could have won. Happens to every team, including his.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:17 am to EveryonesACoach
Forgot to say he was lucky LSU does not go for a first down to end the season for him this year.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:18 am to EveryonesACoach
Fail on 2009. Bama beat the shite out of Texas. Colt McCoy didn't just happen to get injured; Bama was curb-stomping him on every play. I went into that game thinking Bama was better, watched the first two series, and realized it was going to be a blowout. With a big lead, Saban sat on it. If you'd have told him he gets a million bucks for every 10 points of margin Saban would have beat Texas by 40 even with McCoy.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 1:03 pm to EveryonesACoach
Be careful using such concise logic here....it makes some folks head explode.
Solid post
Solid post
Posted on 11/18/12 at 1:23 pm to EveryonesACoach
Saban is the best coach in the country, deal with it
Posted on 11/18/12 at 2:30 pm to EveryonesACoach
Every coach including Saban has their share of good fortune. Les has enough good fortune for 10 coaching careers.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 2:38 pm to EveryonesACoach
LSU fans are Saban-obsessed to Biblical proportions.
I thought that one day it would not be so, but, i do believe that this obsession will last for eternity.
I thought that one day it would not be so, but, i do believe that this obsession will last for eternity.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 3:03 pm to EveryonesACoach
Should have posted on the sec rant.
Posted on 11/18/12 at 4:05 pm to EveryonesACoach
Didn't read but screw Saban and Bama.
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