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re: Lance Armstrong was part of the most complex doping scheme ever...
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:56 pm to lsuroadie
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:56 pm to lsuroadie
It's unfair to lay all of cycling's doping problems at the feet of Armstrong. If you believe Tyler Hamilton, US Postal already had a doping program going before Armstrong ever joined the team. And Michele Ferrari was doping some of Europe's most famous cyclists when Armstrong was barely a teenager before he ever toook up the sport of cycling.
0
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:57 pm to barry
quote:
stamina
That's one facet of being a great athlete overall. I think being really good to great at only one facet of being an athlete doesn't really make you a great athlete.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:57 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
ath·let·ics/aTH'letiks/
Noun:
1. Physical sports and games of any kind.
2. The sport of competing in track and field events.
Synonyms: sport
Looks like Cycling is athletics to me.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:58 pm to Dr RC
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:00 pm to elprez00
quote:
Give it a try, then revisit your claim that cyclists are not great athletes
My being able to ride like that or not would not change the way I define a great athlete. If the bar for being a great athlete were based on being able to do things that I can't, anyone that can hit a curveball, catch a football, or make a 3-pointer would be considered a great athlete.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:01 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
I think being really good to great at only one facet of being an athlete doesn't really make you a great athlete.
There is a lot more to cycling than just pedaling.
When I did my first century, I trained for 6 months. That included riding, running, and gym time. I in no way consider myself to be a great athlete, but I have a true appreciation for the physical skill that it take to compete at this level in this sport. Bo Jackson, who I also consider to be a great athlete, probably wouldn't last for 5 mins in one of the training regimens for a pro cyclist.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:01 pm to barry
quote:
no one cares.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:05 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
If the bar for being a great athlete were based on being able to do things that I can't, anyone that can hit a curveball, catch a football, or make a 3-pointer would be considered a great athlete.
Then you're missing the point. There are maybe 100 people in the world that are able to compete regularly in competitive cycling. By compete, I mean on a level to have a chance to win regularly. I would say that's pretty extraordinary.
Not everyone that rides in the Tour are there to win. There is a lot of team strategy that goes in to riding. Guys have roles on their teams.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:07 pm to SevenSix
quote:
Hincapie just released a statement admitting to doping during his career.
I would link it, but I think his website is crashing due to traffic.
eta: Did George ever test positive during his time on the US Postal team?
USADA claims that it squeezed eleven of his former teammates into ratting him out. Here's the list:
George Hincapie,
Floyd Landis
Tyler Hamilton
Frankie Andreu
Michael Barry
Tom Danielson
Levi Leipheimer
Stephen Swart
Christian Vande Velde
Jonathan Vaughters
David Zabriskie
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:10 pm to elprez00
quote:
Then you're missing the point. There are maybe 100 people in the world that are able to compete regularly in competitive cycling.
No, I'm not missing the point. Those people are great cyclists. What they're doing isn't easy. But that alone doesn't make them great athletes.
If you read my earlier post in this thread after someone mentioned Armstrong's triathalon background (which I didn't really know about), I conceded that factoring that in, he is a great athlete, because he excelled at multiple things at an extremely high level, not just one thing.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:13 pm to ProjectP2294
Dude, they're competing against other cyclists, they are doing a physical activity, and they have to train for it.
Cycling is a sport, therefore the people who compete in said sport are athletes. Just because it doesn't involve a ball doesn't make them non-athletes.
Cycling is a sport, therefore the people who compete in said sport are athletes. Just because it doesn't involve a ball doesn't make them non-athletes.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:15 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
quote:
Just because it doesn't involve a ball doesn't make them non-athletes.
Just because you have no grasp of what I'm saying doesn't mean you should feel compelled to respond to me.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:16 pm to lsuroadie
Last month, 1996 World Champion and 3-times Parix-Roubaix winner Johan Museeuw called on the entire peleton to end the "omerta" and for his former colleagues to do a "collective mea cupla".
LINK
Based on the confessions of guys like Jonathan Vaughters, Johan Museeuw and Tyler Hamilton and the all the behind-the scene stuff they revealing, I'm beginning to think that it's very likely that every single rider in the peleton was doping. Vaughters was just an ordinary domestique. If guys like him have to dope just to struggle to make a team, who's not doping?
quote:
Doping and EPO were established in the peloton in the 1980s and 1990s, says Johan Museeuw, who has called on his former colleagues to confess their doping. The Belgian has in the past acknowledged his own doping use during his successful career.
"I am the first to admit it openly, and perhaps many people will blame me that I break the silence, but it must be: virtually everyone took doping at that time,” he told the Gazet van Antwerpen.
"We must break with the hypocrisy. The only way to come out of that murderous spiral is to break the silence, the silence that continues to haunt us.”
Everyone must confess to their part, he said. “If we do not then the borrowing into the past will continue. Only a collective mea culpa is the way to the future.”
Doping was a fact of life at that period, he said. “In the 80s and 90s everyone knew what each other was doing but never said a word about doping. Using doping was something everyone did. Eventually it became a part of your lifestyle."
But the peloton is cleaner now, he said. “Because it 'is' better, now. Never before has racing been so clean, I'm sure. But that data is completely snowed under” since many of those involved refused to tell the truth about “the things that went wrong in the past. The omerta of the past prevents cycling from now starting again with a clean slate."
LINK
Based on the confessions of guys like Jonathan Vaughters, Johan Museeuw and Tyler Hamilton and the all the behind-the scene stuff they revealing, I'm beginning to think that it's very likely that every single rider in the peleton was doping. Vaughters was just an ordinary domestique. If guys like him have to dope just to struggle to make a team, who's not doping?
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:17 pm to ProjectP2294
We all understand what you're saying, but you're changing the definition of athlete to fit your views
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:19 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
Him being able to do more than one thing at a really high level, and being singularly great at one of them would make him a great athlete.
If it's just for bicycling, then I will not consider him a great athlete.
quote:
I think being really good to great at only one facet of being an athlete doesn't really make you a great athlete
That is what you are saying. Which is fricking retarded. Cycling also doesn't involve 'one facet'. I don't think you grasp what the fricking definition of athlete is.
This post was edited on 10/10/12 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:19 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
you're changing the definition of athlete to fit your views
I'm talking about what constitutes a great athlete. You obviously still haven't picked up on what I'm saying.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:21 pm to DrVinnyBoombatz
quote:
Which is fricking retarded.
Because you disagree does not make it retarded. It just means you disagree. But at least you have discerned what I'm saying.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:23 pm to lsuroadie
Yay. Pat yourselves on the back for ruining a great american, and for...well...I don't know what else.
But good job.
But good job.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:26 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
I'm talking about what constitutes a great athlete. You obviously still haven't picked up on what I'm saying.
I understand exactly what you are saying, that doesn't make it correct.
He obviously fits the definition of an athlete, and he is obviously great or elite at the definition of an athlete.
Your argument is silly
Posted on 10/10/12 at 1:26 pm to ProjectP2294
You're pretty much the only one who doesn't think a cyclist is an athlete.
Discovery and BBC and Athletes without limits disagree with you.
Discovery and BBC and Athletes without limits disagree with you.
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