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Would Messi have to win a WC to be considered the Greatest of All-Time?
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:38 am
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:38 am
SI article on Barcelona got me thinking...should Messi be "punished" on the all-time scale if he never wins the World Cup? (When he eventually retires, of course.)
Discuss.
quote:
The résumé Messi has already produced at age 25 only begins to make the case: a world-record 73 goals in all club competitions last season, including an unprecedented five in one Champions League game; 252 goals and 89 assists in 331 Barça appearances at week's end; three Champions League and five Spanish league titles; and three straight world player of the year awards, also unprecedented. Already he has joined Pelé and Diego Maradona in the debate over the greatest player of all time, and while detractors note that Messi has yet to win a World Cup (Pelé won three, Maradona one), it's also true that the sport has changed since the days of those older stars. The Champions League is now viewed in many precincts as a superior competition to the World Cup because it features more top players, a bigger sample size and a higher level of play that international soccer's marquee quadrennial event. Pelé never played club soccer in Europe, while Maradona never won the top European club crown, which was decided by a smaller-scale tournament during his career. If Messi keeps winning the most important club trophies and putting up off-the-charts numbers with Barça, he may not need the World Cup to be called the greatest.
Discuss.
This post was edited on 10/10/12 at 9:39 am
12
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:40 am to WarSlamEagle
Not for me, but for others yes. If Argentina didn't have Maradona as coach in 2010, it could have been their year.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:49 am to WarSlamEagle
I don't necessarily think so. The World Cup is damn hard to win and if you're lucky, you'll play in four in your lifetime. He also got the unlucky task of playing during this Spanish Armada. He is, I think, going to have to do something more than dominate La Liga. He simply hasn't shown up on the international scale at all
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:50 am to WarSlamEagle
I would say no as well. Messi's teammates are a huge reason why he has the chance to be considered the GOAT, and he doesn't have that level of talent next to him in Argentina.
Don't get me wrong, the Argentinians are great soccer players, but they're not FCB-level.
I think Messi could go down as the greatest because he would be the best player on possibly the best club team of all-time. His stats are mind-boggling.
And this...
...speaks volumes in this debate.
Don't get me wrong, the Argentinians are great soccer players, but they're not FCB-level.
I think Messi could go down as the greatest because he would be the best player on possibly the best club team of all-time. His stats are mind-boggling.
And this...
quote:
Pelé never played club soccer in Europe, while Maradona never won the top European club crown,
...speaks volumes in this debate.
This post was edited on 10/10/12 at 9:52 am
Posted on 10/10/12 at 9:51 am to WarSlamEagle
No. It would help his legacy but if he continues his current pace, he'll go down as the GOAT regardless of his international success.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:34 am to WarSlamEagle
No. No further words are needed.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:40 am to WarSlamEagle
frick no
it's a team stat, first of all...PLUS it's a tourney that a player's national team gets a shot at maybe 3 times in his career
it's a team stat, first of all...PLUS it's a tourney that a player's national team gets a shot at maybe 3 times in his career
Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:57 am to WarSlamEagle
the first thing he'd have to do is be the best on the planet right now.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 7:23 pm to WarSlamEagle
Obviously no. I am glad to see that the soccer board is smart enough to mix team accomplishments and individual stats. It is probably my biggest peeve pet with sports fans (and people in general).
Why should Messi be penalized for that? What if he played for American Somoa (who notoriously lost 31-0 to Australia
)?
Why should Messi be penalized for that? What if he played for American Somoa (who notoriously lost 31-0 to Australia
)?
Posted on 10/10/12 at 8:10 pm to WarSlamEagle
If he had capped with Spain instead of Argentina he'd already be considered the GOAT.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 10:52 pm to WarSlamEagle
They might have the best attack (certainly top 3 if healthy) in this upcoming world cup. How is their backline outside of Zabaleta?
Posted on 10/11/12 at 1:25 am to WarSlamEagle
Messi has won a world cup, actually two
does he need to win a FIFA World cup? no. A players of his stature will maybe play in 4, most likely only 3. THREE, just think about it. In a competition comprising of almost every single country in the world, you only get to compete in this three times. The odds of ever winning are slim.
I think a valid point is that the Champions League has far more talent in it with stronger teams than the World Cup will have. Messi obviously has made his case in that. The problem is that he has played it with the same team, players, and system for all of his playing years. It has put his name up there but also created some criticism.
I think all Messi would need to do to win over this argument is to go to another Champions League club and have similar statistics. If he can score 25+ goals in a season with a totally different team and system, then without a doubt in my head should he be considered the best of all time.
does he need to win a FIFA World cup? no. A players of his stature will maybe play in 4, most likely only 3. THREE, just think about it. In a competition comprising of almost every single country in the world, you only get to compete in this three times. The odds of ever winning are slim.
I think a valid point is that the Champions League has far more talent in it with stronger teams than the World Cup will have. Messi obviously has made his case in that. The problem is that he has played it with the same team, players, and system for all of his playing years. It has put his name up there but also created some criticism.
I think all Messi would need to do to win over this argument is to go to another Champions League club and have similar statistics. If he can score 25+ goals in a season with a totally different team and system, then without a doubt in my head should he be considered the best of all time.
This post was edited on 10/11/12 at 1:26 am
Posted on 10/11/12 at 5:31 pm to WarSlamEagle
If his career continues as it is, and he's around another three maybe four years at this level, it won't matter whether or not he won the WC.
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