re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

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I'm intrigued. Explain right now.

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Well, this was introduced to me by skirpnasty on page 120. There was a bit of discussion at that point. There are some difficulties with it, notably that Mance was at Winterfell when Robert and the Lannisters came to bring Ned to KL, and Robert, Jamie and Ned would likely have recognized him, but after 20 years or so, and him blending in as a musician and knowing to avoid Jamie, it is still very possible.

The most intriguing part to me is the sword fight with Jon. Jon is shocked how good he is, and imagining Dayne toying with JS is just too fricking cool IMO.

Not to mention Ned going to Starfall to return Dawn out of respect, and years later the future Lord of House Dayne being named Edric and nicknamed "Ned".

I believe Ned and Dayne made a pact that Ned would protect JS's identity and Dayne went to The Wall with Benjen and went beyond The Wall to bring the wildlings to safety as King Beyond The Wall when The Others began threatening.


Anyway, here is skirpnasty's OP from 120 with some highlights, and a link to page 120 so you can read some of the discussion on it. Not everyone buys it ftr:

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When talking to Bran about Knights he says "the best I ever knew was Ser Arthur Dayne, who would have killed me had it not been for Howland Reed", he then became sad and wouldn't speak about it further. Reed stepped in the way and was killed to save Ned, Dayne yielded when he realized Ned was going to do Jon no harm and Ned made him take the black because he would have refused to join Robert's Kings guard.

Jaime says when talking to the kings guard, "I learned from the best who has ever lived, Ser Arthur Dayne, who could slay all 5 of you with his left hand while taking a piss with his right". Curious that despite him being that good Ned (who as great as he is has never been refered to as a masterful swordsman) supposedly killed him in single combat.

Mance was supposedly fathered on the wall after they found him as a child, fathering children is directly against their vows and they would have taken him somewhere else to be fostered. He claims to have never met Benjen which would be nearly impossible in such a small watch, I think it is more likely that benjen took the black with him under Ned's request.

We have a first hand account of Mance's skill with a long sword and his strength through Jon when Jon thinks it is Rattleshirt, he wouldn't have learned to be that good with a sword on the wall.

In GoT when talking about the king beyond the wall, Ned tells Cat "we have nothing to fear of Mance Rayder". Why would he have nothing to fear if he didn't know him?

Last but not least in 15 years since nobody has seen or heard of Howland Reed, even when Robb raised his banners. It isn't because he is keeping the secret of Jon it's because he died at the ToJ.

It explains the father like agenda Mance shows to Jon, it shows why Mel actually saved him, and it shows why Mance is now doing Jon's bidding. He is the fricking sword of the morning and still sees his allegiance as a knight of the kings guard to Jon, the rightful king in his mind. When this unfolds it's going to be the most bad arse thing ever.

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