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Tiger Voodoo
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


So I got to a point in my re-read where I decided to back up and re-read all of Eddard's POVs again. His arc is so crucial in these early events, that I really wanted to absorb everything I could.

One of the chapters that jumped out at me was Eddard IV, when he first reaches King's Landing and is brought to see Catelyn by Littlefinger.

The biggest thing that jumped out at me was this:

"So he listened, and she told it all.....And when she was done, Eddard Stark sat dazed besides the table, the dagger in his hand. Bran's wolf had saved the boys life....What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's.....If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done?"


That last line strikes me as truly important, and a real tragedy. Ned's honor led him to carry out the king's order himself because he felt Lady was "of the North" and deserved better than "a butcher" like Payne, and that may have been the act that took him out of the gods' favor in his mind. Just frustrating. Lady did deserve better than Payne, and certainly so did Eddard Stark.


Later, he reflects on Robert's cruel acts, or acts by omission as ruler:

"He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once.

Interesting way to link those two pleadings. While it is pretty much a given that R+L=J, this is just one more link in that chain. Sansa was pleading for Ned to save Lady, her precious pup that was like a part of her, and Ned likened that to Lyanna's cries.



But the most interesting line that I can't quite figure out how it fits into Ned's backstory and the TOJ, is this, when Cat tells Ned that she has told Littlefinger their suspicions about Jon Arryn's death:

"That was not news that Eddard Stark welcomed, but it was true enough that they needed help, and Littlefinger had been almost a brother to Cat once. It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man that he despised."


I suppose this could be a simple reference to anyone that Ned fought alongside during Robert's Rebellion, or even at the Iron Islands. Particularly, it could reference Jamie, and Ned's strong feelings against him after he found him sitting the Throne.

But speaking of "joining common cause" doesn't really fit there, as essentially the cause was finished the moment he entered the hall, and we aren't told that Ned and Jaime had beef before that, although Jamie was present when the Mad King tortured and killed his father and brother. But so was Barristan and every other member of the Kingsguard and High Council.

Also, the word "despised", hints at much more that simply fighting alongside another lord that he disliked or didn't get along with for whatever reason.

It makes me wonder if the Tower of Joy involved some sort of collaboration, and who it could possibly be referring to that he despised yet joined forces with????

Any ideas?






This post was edited on 2/1 at 9:04 am


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shinerfan
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man that he despised




That is interesting.






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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

common cause


This refers to Tywin Lannister, and his part in slaying Rhaegar's offspring, and I think, for sure, Jaime.

He killed the King when on the befrigged "King's Guard". I believe Ned knew in his heart the order for him to do so came from Tywin...I think Jaime admits such in the series at one part.

Ned and Robert had a HUGE fight over it, and it was bigtime, the type that almost ends friendships...Ned fought so hard and so nobly to win the war for Robert, only to have it end in a despicable, deceitful way a la Tywin. Ned left to finish off the remaining "loyalists" in Dorne.

It was Lyanna's death that reconciled them.

ETA: whoops! Forgot the important part:

Forced to join w Tywin to put down The Greyjoy Rebellion



This post was edited on 2/1 at 2:32 pm


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Mr. Wayne
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

nteresting way to link those two pleadings. While it is pretty much a given that R+L=J, this is just one more link in that chain. Sansa was pleading for Ned to save Lady, her precious pup that was like a part of her, and Ned likened that to Lyanna's cries.


Very well done.

quote:

It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man that he despised.


I think this is one of the lines people read into too much. Ned is likely talking about many people he has fought with in his time. Could be talking about Tywin, Jamie, Roose Bolton, hell even the Sisterton guy who smuggled him home. In war, you put your feelings of certain people aside if they are fighting for your cause. Which is why he thought he could trust LF.






This post was edited on 2/1 at 2:40 pm


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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Wayne's right in stressing that point.
You have a crucial clue to The Theory.


Eta: no more milk of the poppy for KingBob.



This post was edited on 2/1 at 2:45 pm


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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I believe Ned knew in his heart the order for him to do so came from Tywin...I think Jaime admits such in the series at one part.


Jaime did it on his own accord I'm pretty sure. He had good reasons, since what he did may have saved the whole city from burning.



This post was edited on 2/1 at 5:21 pm


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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Jaime did it on his own accord I'm pretty sure. He had good reasons, since what he did may have saved the whole city from burning.


Agreed






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9th life
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


any speculation on who blows the dragon horn? or is it pretty much a forgone conclusion that it will be Dany?





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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

any speculation on who blows the dragon horn? or is it pretty much a forgone conclusion that it will be Dany?



I think Victarion is just going to get slaves to do it for him.






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kingbob
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Varys is secretly Kaizer Soze in the movie "The Usual Suspects" and posts on Tigerdroppings as El Gaucho.

jk, I think Littlefinger is going to make a huge mistake in the next book or two that is going to lead to Robert and Littlefinger being murdered and some new random guy from the Vale taking Sansa as his wife. This random guy will turn out to have been aligned with Varys and Aegon all along, maybe even having some family or fostering ties to Jon Connington.






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

jk, I think Littlefinger is going to make a huge mistake in the next book or two that is going to lead to Robert and Littlefinger being murdered and some new random guy from the Vale taking Sansa as his wife. This random guy will turn out to have been aligned with Varys and Aegon all along, maybe even having some family or fostering ties to Jon Connington.



I think its coming down to a three way battle between Littlefinger, Varys, and Tyrion for the realm, with Tyrion largely being the victor in the end since he was the one person out of the three of them that doesn't underestimate the importance of the Wall and the possibilities of the Others' coming down. Littlefinger would be the first to go through a combination of the Others and Sansa, with Varys being brought down by Jon Connington once he realizes how much Varys has ruined his life by starting the conflict between Rhaegar and his father in the first place, as well as Aegon not being who he believes he is.

I think I've figured out a cool way for Varys to be revealed as a Blackfyre: Varys comes to personally greet Dany and escort her to King's Landing. Tyrion finds information that makes him know that he means to kill Dany and merely take her army and dragons away from her. Dany then roasts Varys alive using Drogon, but he more than survives with his cloths merely being burnt off, and he flees back to the Red Keep.






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kingbob
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


that is cool, I like it





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Carson123987
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


that would be pretty awesome





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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

that would be pretty awesome



Also Connington would secure the throne for Jon Snow if that comes to pass. Granted, I'm not sure if Connington will live for much longer after he arrives in King's Landing. Varys may dispose of him first due to the fact that Varys knows Connington loathes him and if he finds out how he manipulated Aerys against Rhaegar, then he'll lose it and kill Varys. Varys won't take any risks and kill Connington almost as soon as he marches through the gates, and then Illyrio would become Hand of the King if that happens.



This post was edited on 2/4 at 4:55 pm


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TigerDeacon
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Back in this thread. Have a long way to catch back up.





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kingbob
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Connington might not even live long enough to do any of that. He has the disease that's turning him to stone pretty fast.





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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Connington might not even live long enough to do any of that. He has the disease that's turning him to stone pretty fast.



I think he'll make it long enough to see Aegon take over King's Landing. I just think the greyscale is going to make sure that he totally doesn't give a frick about what happens to him in the end.






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kingbob
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


however, it could make him less physically able to kill people





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Sid in Lakeshore
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

it could make him less physically able to kill people



but absolutely willing to scrifice himself,,,






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Josh Fenderman
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


LINK

Not sure how many of you saw this, but:

quote:

GRRM Signs Deal with HBO
... has signed a two-year overall deal with the pay cable network.
Under the pact, Martin will continue as co-executive producer on Game Of Thrones, whose Season 3 premieres March 31. Additionally, he will develop and produce new series projects for the network.

quote:

The question I’m most curious about is whether GRRM and HBO already have an inkling of what they might be seeing develop out of this deal. Will GRRM spear-head adaptations of Armageddon Rag or Tuf Voyaging? Or is he going to develop all-new properties for the cable network?

If that means he will be helping make more tv shows then that just means he will have even less time to finish the books. I try to stay optimistic about him finishing, but this hurts me.






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