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By The Numbers: Hornets will be 11th in the Western Conference

Posted on 8/3/12 at 9:49 am
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 9:49 am
Mason over at 247 uses advanced stats to predict where the Hornets fall in the Western Conference. His assumptions:

quote:

For simplicity’s sake, I have eliminated a few teams from this analysis. The main goal here is to project how the Western Conference “playoff bubble” will play out; therefore, I assume that last season’s top 6 seeds – the Spurs, Thunder, Lakers, Clippers, Grizzlies, and Nuggets – will all remain in the playoff picture. None of those teams lost any key pieces, and a couple of them added to their core. I also assume that the Blazers and Kings will remain at the bottom of the conference for at least one more season.

That leaves seven teams – the Hornets, Rockets, Mavericks, Suns, Jazz, Timberwolves, and Warriors – left to battle it out for the final two playoff spots. To evaluate each team based on their new rosters, I weighted each player’s PER from the prior season based on expected minutes per game (also based off of the 2011-12 season) to get a MPG-weighted total PER for each team. This concept seems simple enough, but some assumptions were required in order to keep this analysis as simple as possible.
Assumptions

* To project the PERs of this year’s rookie class, I plugged in the results from John Hollinger’s draft rater column from late June. In the case of Alexey Shved and Donatas Motiejunas, I had to create my own projections.
* If a player was injured for most or all of the 2011-12 season or simply did not play in the NBA last year, I used the PER that was projected for them by Hollinger before that season began.
* If a player’s projected PER comes in under replacement level, it will revert to replacement level. The underlying assumption here is that if a player is playing so poorly as to be under replacement level, the coach would reallocate his distribution of minutes towards players who were performing at a higher level. The replacement level PER that Hollinger provides is different for each position on the court; 11.0 for PGs, 10.5 for SGs and SFs, 11.5 for PFs, and 10.6 for Cs.
* Due to the unpredictability of injuries, none were assumed. Clearly, they will unfortunately occur, but guessing when they will happen as well as the severity is no easy task.
* Finally, the various levels of each team’s coaching staff will be ignored. Players obviously aren’t everything, but with this sort of analysis, it would be very difficult to integrate the impact of good vs. poor coaching.


LINK

The Results:


quote:

Tier 1 – Minnesota and Utah

...Tier 2 – Dallas, Golden State, and New Orleans

...The Hornets are the wild card here. The team’s back court depth is incredibly suspect, but will feature one of the strongest front courts in the league between Anderson, Davis, Lopez and Smith. Apart from Eric Gordon’s health, the biggest key for the Hornets to have a chance at making the playoffs is the progression of Austin Rivers. Greivis is a serviceable PG and will be adequate for getting Gordon and the Hornets’ big men the ball, but the team is remarkably thin at guard behind he and Gordon. If Rivers can surpass expectations for his rookie season and make a significant positive impact at the point guard position, then New Orleans has a legitimate chance to battle Minnesota and Utah for those last two playoff spots.

Tier 3 – Phoenix and Houston


More detail at the LINK
Posted by gjackx
Red Stick
Member since Jan 2007
16584 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Tier 3 – Phoenix and Houston

OUCH!
Posted by BigDawg0420
Hamsterdam
Member since Apr 2010
7503 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:10 am to
I think it's a pretty fair assessment. although I don't believe that sacramento and portland are going to be the worst in the west this year
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:10 am to
Pretty large assumptions.

1. the analysis assumes that PER is indicative of team performance...

2. The analysis assumes that players do not improve or slide between seasons.

3. The analysis assumes that Hollinger's draft analysis is indicative of actual NBA performance.



Posted by 42
Member since Apr 2012
3703 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:24 am to
I look at this idea of replacement with a raised eye. In truth, coaches don't adhere to this rule.

As an assumption in a quick analysis, it is fine, I'm sure.

The above concerns are all legit, but what else can be done.

My guess is the model will be refined.

I'd like to see a range developed for each team based on various improvements, injuries, etc. Then, group the results and see if there's a difference.

It's a fine piece and a fine start. A nice swag.

I's also like to see this done with WS and other ratings. Let's see what holds water.
Posted by LosLobos111
Austere
Member since Feb 2011
45385 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:29 am to
Sounds alright to me but i think we will just miss the playoffs imo
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:31 am to
quote:

The above concerns are all legit, but what else can be done.


I'm not saying there is a way to correct those assumptions. The problem is making assumptions. Yu know the old saying.

In the Hornets case, I would expect Gordon's return and the addition of Davis to help Vasquez improve his per significantly. I just think it is inherently flawed to use PER to make those determinations. It's a slow period for NBA news, though, so writers are going to stretch logic for the sake of analysis.
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:32 am to
Bottom line: A team is far more than the sum of its parts.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 10:58 am to
quote:

the addition of Davis to help Vasquez improve his per significantly


There was a video interview of Vasquez at Summer League and he was giddy as a school girl when he talked about how much Davis' defense would help him. I think it will turn him from questionable starter to legit starter. Especially if he's improved his 3pt shot.
This post was edited on 8/3/12 at 10:59 am
Posted by Tennessee Jed
Mr. SEC Rant
Member since Nov 2009
17909 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:18 am to
I like Vasquez, but there's no way he's a legit starting NBA point guard. You're in need of an upgrade as long as he's your number 1 number 1.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:34 am to
quote:

there's no way he's a legit starting NBA point guard.


When I said legit starter I meant for the Hornets, not the league in general. Davis will cover Vasquez's defensive deficiencies and on offense keeping the defense honest by hitting open jumpers or driving and dishing when they sag off of him will be his primary task. If he's improved his jumper in the offseason he should be a decent starter next to Gordon. He did shoot 57% from 3 in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament so hopefully he's better than 31% in the NBA this season.
Posted by MinnesotaTiger
Anthony Davis puts it up... BANNNG!
Member since May 2008
4596 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:38 am to
Oy vey! Such a way with numbers this young Ginsberg has!
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:38 am to
quote:

I like Vasquez, but there's no way he's a legit starting NBA point guard. You're in need of an upgrade as long as he's your number 1 number 1.


I would bet your definition of legit starter consists of about 6 PGs in the NBA. There are not that many star PGs in the league.

I have a challenge for you: Name 29 better PGs in the NBA.
Posted by MinnesotaTiger
Anthony Davis puts it up... BANNNG!
Member since May 2008
4596 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:39 am to
His list will include Darren Collision and you will be ready to pounce with PER.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
104463 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:40 am to
quote:

I like Vasquez, but there's no way he's a legit starting NBA point guard. You're in need of an upgrade as long as he's your number 1 number 1.


Which is what Rivers is for, long-term.

It's not like we can get much better at the point in the short-term anyway, as the top ones left on the market right now are a washed-up Fish and Gilbert Arenas.
Posted by MinnesotaTiger
Anthony Davis puts it up... BANNNG!
Member since May 2008
4596 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:47 am to
Rivers.will never be.a.legit starting 1 IMO.

Hole I'm wrong tho!
Posted by Jester
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
34717 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:52 am to
quote:

you will be ready to pounce with PER.



Not me.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
104463 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 11:53 am to
quote:

Rivers.will never be.a.legit starting 1 IMO.

Hole I'm wrong tho!


If he becomes one, things worked to plan.

Failing that, we've got a good backup for Gordon because we desperately needed shooters.
Posted by quail man
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
41251 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 12:12 pm to
Am I going to have to bust out Quail Man's advanced stats again?

My stats don't lie.
Posted by Tennessee Jed
Mr. SEC Rant
Member since Nov 2009
17909 posts
Posted on 8/3/12 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

Name 29 better PGs in the NBA


Pointless exercise. He's a nice combo guard could be a really nice piece coming off the bench, I personally saw him light it up once or twice for the Grizz, but if he's your starting point guard, there's at least one glaring problem with your roster.
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