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Message
re: Disastrous night for the tank
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:23 pm to Fearthehat0307
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:23 pm to Fearthehat0307
Like I've said before, I would never expect a competitor to intentionally go out there and compete at a lower level to lose.
That being said, Minn is right and winning gains us nothing at this point. Not saying I want the hornets to tank, but I get his point.
Is the 1st pick a sure thing the worse your schedule is? Of course not, but 5% is 5% better than not having it at all.
Are Davis and Robinson 100% bust-proof? Of course not, but you've seen their peronsality, what they can do on the court and you go from there.
I understand it's not a sure thing and I understand the players drafted 1 and 2 aren't sure things. But in terms of business and 3 wins putting you out of the top of the lotto, and the 3 losses yielding an insane amount of upside comparatively...the losses are obviously better for the franchise. Simple cost-benefit analysis.
We lose our remaining games and cle and sac lose theirs also. Outcome.....we are still at square one and we've lost nothing.
We win our remaining games and get bumped down the list in terms of odds and we are now in a worst position to hopefully have our ping pong ball show up 1st.
You don't cheer for your team to lose, but at this point in the season, NOTHING is on the line. The fan support, team morale and all that bs is not going to be affected by 3 losses at the end of a season by a team who is obviously receiving an asenine amount of support considering they could potentially draft top 3.
That being said, Minn is right and winning gains us nothing at this point. Not saying I want the hornets to tank, but I get his point.
Is the 1st pick a sure thing the worse your schedule is? Of course not, but 5% is 5% better than not having it at all.
Are Davis and Robinson 100% bust-proof? Of course not, but you've seen their peronsality, what they can do on the court and you go from there.
I understand it's not a sure thing and I understand the players drafted 1 and 2 aren't sure things. But in terms of business and 3 wins putting you out of the top of the lotto, and the 3 losses yielding an insane amount of upside comparatively...the losses are obviously better for the franchise. Simple cost-benefit analysis.
We lose our remaining games and cle and sac lose theirs also. Outcome.....we are still at square one and we've lost nothing.
We win our remaining games and get bumped down the list in terms of odds and we are now in a worst position to hopefully have our ping pong ball show up 1st.
You don't cheer for your team to lose, but at this point in the season, NOTHING is on the line. The fan support, team morale and all that bs is not going to be affected by 3 losses at the end of a season by a team who is obviously receiving an asenine amount of support considering they could potentially draft top 3.
1
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:25 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
I was at the game. In the moment, I wasn't cheering for them to lose. During the course of a game, I don't cheer for them to lose.
But the logical thing for them to do is lose. Wanting them to win isn't logical at all.
This. Whenever making an objective decision about something, TAKE EMOTION OUT OF IT. Emotionally you always want your team to win. At this point, emotions aside, the franchise LOGICALLY gains (or "potentially" gains) way more by losing than winning
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:26 pm to Fun Bunch
This whole debate is fricking tiresome. I'm tired of the alleged superior intellectual, dispassionate analysis of the avid tankers (who view themselves as the real "fans" because they are looking to the "long term future"of the franchise . . . frick you, you're not nearly as bright as you assume), I'm even growing tired of the anti-tankers saying the tankers aren't "real fans" (you're not nearly morally superior as you assume), and I'm just tired of the back and forth.back and forth. Therefore, I think I'll jump into this thread and post again. 
Here's my position. I like the idea of the team winning the occasional game this season. Why the frick would I even want to waste my time watching a team at all if it was only to pull for it to lose or to "evaluate" talent. . . even though I like the idea of increasing favorable odds if we lose.
Monty has it right. He pulled out the stops last night because he wanted to give the fans who showed up something to cheer for in the last home game. He is pulling the plug from here on out. He as much as said both things in his post-game interview. I doubt we'll see EG anymore this year. Smith is out, etc. Look, you can't tell the guys who are left not to try. I really do think that fricks up the integrity of the game. As I said a month ago, that actually raises some interesting legal issues with ramifications outside of the league itself.
Anyway, kiss my arse everybody.
Here's my position. I like the idea of the team winning the occasional game this season. Why the frick would I even want to waste my time watching a team at all if it was only to pull for it to lose or to "evaluate" talent. . . even though I like the idea of increasing favorable odds if we lose.
Monty has it right. He pulled out the stops last night because he wanted to give the fans who showed up something to cheer for in the last home game. He is pulling the plug from here on out. He as much as said both things in his post-game interview. I doubt we'll see EG anymore this year. Smith is out, etc. Look, you can't tell the guys who are left not to try. I really do think that fricks up the integrity of the game. As I said a month ago, that actually raises some interesting legal issues with ramifications outside of the league itself.
Anyway, kiss my arse everybody.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:27 pm to dcrews
quote:
The fan support, team morale and all that bs is not going to be affected by 3 losses at the end of a season by a team who is obviously receiving an asenine amount of support considering they could potentially draft top 3.
I agree now that these are road games. But winning last night was huge, IMO.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:33 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
I agree now that these are road games. But winning last night was huge, IMO.
You think so? You could very well be right. For me personally it just solidified what I already knew. Had we lost, my opinion of the team and the organization would not have changed.
I just don't believe a loss last night would have caused thousands of people to burn their jerseys or not buy a ticket to the game(s) ever again.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:37 pm to dcrews
quote:
For me personally it just solidified what I already knew. Had we lost, my opinion of the team and the organization would not have changed.
Yes, because you are a long time fan.
But that place was sold out with the extra 15,000 jackasses that came to post name changes when Benson bought the team. We get them buying season tix/exended plans, we are in good shape financially.
That was my original point.
This post was edited on 4/20/12 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:41 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
Yes, because you are a long time fan.
But that place was sold out with the extra 15,000 jackasses that came to post name changes when Benson bought the team. We get them buying season tix/exended plans, we are in good shape financially.
That was my original point.
Don't be coming in here with all your facts and logical points!
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:42 pm to VOR
quote:
Here's my position. I like the idea of the team winning the occasional game this season. Why the frick would I even want to waste my time watching a team at all if it was only to pull for it to lose or to "evaluate" talent. . . even though I like the idea of increasing favorable odds if we lose.
Winning an occasional game was fine. Now with slotting on the line, its hard to be excited about that.
I don't cheer for my team to lose, but again, it doesn't make much sense for them to win.
Also: frick you too.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:43 pm to dcrews
quote:this i hate people that come and post using common sense and what not
Don't be coming in here with all your facts and logical points!
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:43 pm to VOR
quote:
This whole debate is fricking tiresome.
I wish we could just freeze it until the lotto.
If we miss out on top-3, tankers will be justified in their anger. Right now, it just seems like a waste of energy to speculate on what may or may not happen.
If we get top-3, non-tankers can do this
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:45 pm to dcrews
quote:
Don't be coming in here with all your facts and logical points!
my bad, I guess I'll take that to the SEC rant
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:48 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
I wish we could just freeze it until the lotto.
If we miss out on top-3, tankers will be justified in their anger. Right now, it just seems like a waste of energy to speculate on what may or may not happen.
If we get top-3, non-tankers can do this
What's funny is that, the "pro tank" folks aren't really wanting us to lose. They just understand the logistics of what's at stake and how it affects our draft chances based solely on numbers. Get a top 3 pick or don't get a top 3 pick, most of the "pro tank" people are simply arguing the numbers (not that they think it's a sure thing)
The "anit tank" folks just simply don't believe the extra % points are worth losing and don't seem to think it matters in terms of a 5% swing.
Almost a case of both sides being "right". Really and truly (and I've said this before), I think the only thing either side disagrees on, is "are the extra % points worth the losses". That is simply a matter of opinion.
This post was edited on 4/20/12 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:55 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
I wish we could just freeze it until the lotto.
Me too. I wish I hadn't even commented on this thread, because this is the way it usually goes.
We all want the Hornets to win championships.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 12:58 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Now with slotting on the line, its hard to be excited about that
it was ALWAYS on the line. these last few games mean as much as the first 60.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:00 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
quote:
I wish we could just freeze it until the lotto.
Me too. I wish I hadn't even commented on this thread, because this is the way it usually goes.
We all want the Hornets to win championships.
Everybody bookmark this shite. After the lottery, we will have our civil war.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:01 pm to quail man
quote:
it was ALWAYS on the line. these last few games mean as much as the first 60.
Both true and false.
At a certain point, the focus needs to shift to slotting. If you're locked in to the 3 spot with 8 games left, you treat "winning" and "losing" a little differently than game 5.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:02 pm to quail man
quote:
t was ALWAYS on the line. these last few games mean as much as the first 60.
Eh, I see your point. However if the difference between us making the playoffs and not making the playoffs, are the next three games, then the benefit of winning outweighs the benefit of losing.
That isn't the case though. Where we are now, the benefit of losing is actually better than the benefit of winning.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:06 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Both true and false.
but for real, I get exactly what you're saying, just couldn't resist
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:09 pm to RonFNSwanson
I'm a lawyer, everything is both true and false. Or neither. Or one or the other. Or there's no such thing as true.
Posted on 4/20/12 at 1:09 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:I'm so glad that someone eventually pointed this out. Our future is determined by a lot more than the draft. Every season ticket that's sold makes this a better franchise. Winning games the way we have at the end of the season is a strong indicator to free agents that a healthy New Orleans will be a playoff team next year.
But that place was sold out with the extra 15,000 jackasses that came to post name changes when Benson bought the team. We get them buying season tix/exended plans, we are in good shape financially.
I guess the fact that I realize that the future success of the team is dependent on more than the draft makes me a "simpleton," but whatever.
Having said that, I agree with the "win at home, tank on the road" strategy. I'm not arguing that we should win every game, only that the extreme tankards aren't seeing the whole picture.
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