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Jester 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:09 am to Tiger in NY)
quote:
You talking about Drummond? I think he's entirely overrated if so. He played soft as hell.
Yep, that's him. I'm pulling up other stats, too.
Like, he's supposedly an "elite shot blocker," but he is 22nd in blocks per 40m at 3.74 blk/40 (Davis had 5.85. 5 others had more than 5).
His 10.6 rebounds per 40 is tied for 79th in Division I. Again, far from elite.
The bottom line is, there is nothing elite about Andre Drummond other than his measurables. He is a VERY risky pick.
This post was edited on 4/16 at 9:24 am
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:20 am to Jester)
quote:
The bottom line is, there is nothing elite about Andre Drummond other than his measurables.
but those matter a great deal. big men win you titles
quote:
He is a VERY risky pick.
i don't think anybody is arguing this
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VOR 
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
33143 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
quote:
He is a VERY risky pick.
i don't think anybody is arguing this
No doubt. But if he were to develop, he'd be a scary player.
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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:25 am to VOR)
quote:
No doubt. But if he were to develop, he'd be a scary player.
This is why you could get away with spending the mid lottery pick on him, but I'd be pissed if we spent a top 3 pick on a pure project that you hope will one day learn to care about basketball and grow a pair of nuts.
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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:26 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
but those matter a great deal. big men win you titles
Yeah, but not every big man that can jump is a good basketball player. The league is full of Stromile Swifts, Tyrus Thomases and Anthony Randolphs. These guys have insane measurables (and they actually put up numbers in college), but they just aren't professionals. I just chose those three because they are so familiar, but we could take it farther with Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, etc.
This post was edited on 4/16 at 9:28 am
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263548 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 9:38 am to Jester)
quote:
The league is full of Stromile Swifts, Tyrus Thomases and Anthony Randolphs.
i agree, but the teams close to titles have andrew bynums, dirks, duncans, boshes, howards, etc
it is possible to win without a dominant big, but it's much more rare
the last teams to win a title without a really good big man were those jordan-led bulls teams
dallas: dirk/chandler
lakers: bynum/gasol
spurs: duncan
pistons: sheed/wallace
celtics: kg
sheed, dirk, bynum, gasol, and kg were all major risk/reward picks
so yes, there are a lot of "bad" picks with big men, but that's b/c really good big men are rare and super valuable
the era of tim duncans coming into the NBA at 6-11 with a projectable skillset/ethic are over for now
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Hazelnut 
LA-Lafayette Fan
The Flatts
Member since May 2011
9650 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:01 am to Jester)
quote:
This is why you could get away with spending the mid lottery pick on him, but I'd be pissed if we spent a top 3 pick on a pure project that you hope will one day learn to care about basketball and grow a pair of nuts.
I think we all agree we'd probably take him if he was available at our second pick. But what if our first pick drops to 5 or 6? Would you take him then? I probably would.
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WB504
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
1870 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:07 am to Hazelnut)
I think you have to take him if our pick drops down to 5 and he's still on the board. I believe in our coaching staff and we have a good group of vets that can keep him in line if needed. He's def a risk but that's why you pay coaches to harness that potential.
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TigerinATL
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
26191 posts
 Online
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:10 am to Hazelnut)
quote:
I think we all agree we'd probably take him if he was available at our second pick. But what if our first pick drops to 5 or 6? Would you take him then? I probably would.
I think if that happened most of us would understand taking Drummond. We'd also understand Demps trading the pick. Also, Thabeet's name gets thrown around a lot with Drummond and it really shouldn't. From what I've read he'd rather be playing soccer than basketball but they pay him a lot to play basketball. Thabeet's problem is he has no passion for the game because he didn't grow up playing it.
That's not the case for Drummond and if there's a situation that will minimize his negative tendencies it's the Hornets. There will be a legit starter to take minutes away from him and Monty will have no problem benching him for Smith or Ayon if he doesn't hustle. He still scares me but if the Hornets draft him the primary concern should be basketball IQ.
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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:11 am to Hazelnut)
quote:
I think we all agree we'd probably take him if he was available at our second pick. But what if our first pick drops to 5 or 6? Would you take him then? I probably would.
I would have to think long and hard at 6, depending on how the draft goes up to that point. At 5, I'm just not sure I can take someone who did not produce in college.
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Hazelnut
LA-Lafayette Fan
The Flatts
Member since May 2011
9650 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:12 am to TigerinATL)
Exactly. I think Monty would be the perfect coach to help him realize his potential.
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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:23 am to Hazelnut)
quote:
Exactly. I think Monty would be the perfect coach to help him realize his potential.
Monty is also the kind of coach that might not take his crap and just sit him on the bench until he mans up or gets traded.
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brmark70816
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Feb 2011
1245 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:23 am to Jester)
I don't think they should take him no matter where he falls. Why would the Hornets draft a Center? They are paying Okafor 14+ million a year and he's not going anywhere. They have the rights to a top 6-8 Center in Kaman. Plus Jason Smith is really starting to emerge and he can easily slide over to Center as well. It is the last position of need for the Hornets. Even if they do a sign and trade with Kaman, it's still not a need. If Drummond falls to them, trade the pick. The team has too many needs to stockpile talent or invest in projects.
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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
15050 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:30 am to brmark70816)
quote:
The team has too many needs to stockpile talent or invest in projects.
The reason why people are talking about it is that in the NBA, you rarely, rarely draft based on need as a primary concern. BPA is usually the way to go in the NBA, because one player can make such a drastic difference, and because trades are so common.
And elite bigmen are extremely hard to come by, and when you have one, you win titles.
Also, I doubt Okafor will be with the Hornets the full next 2 years of his contract. And Kaman is a FA that will probably get overpaid.
This post was edited on 4/16 at 10:31 am
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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
15706 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:35 am to Fun Bunch)
quote:
And elite bigmen are extremely hard to come by, and when you have one, you win titles.
I agree with this. I just don't see anything "elite" in Drummond's game. Maybe if they started awarding points for jumping high and having long arms. He's not the first person with long arms to jump high and he won't be the last. There will be someone with just as much "potential" available next year.
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Hazelnut
LA-Lafayette Fan
The Flatts
Member since May 2011
9650 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:44 am to Jester)
quote:
Monty is also the kind of coach that might not take his crap and just sit him on the bench until he mans up or gets traded.
The way I see it is if it comes to that then he wasn't going to succeed anywhere. But if he has the desire in him but just needs some guidance then Monty is perfect for that job
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teke184
LSU Fan
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
5722 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:45 am to Fun Bunch)
quote:
The reason why people are talking about it is that in the NBA, you rarely, rarely draft based on need as a primary concern. BPA is usually the way to go in the NBA, because one player can make such a drastic difference, and because trades are so common.
Problem being that Drummond, as he is now, is far from the BPA until the mid-lottery.
His ceiling is high, but I think his floor is Daniel Orton or Hasheem Thabeet. That's a huge fricking boom-or-bust project.
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brmark70816
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Feb 2011
1245 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:46 am to Fun Bunch)
quote:
The reason why people are talking about it is that in the NBA, you rarely, rarely draft based on need as a primary concern. BPA is usually the way to go in the NBA, because one player can make such a drastic difference, and because trades are so common
This is usually cause a guy can play multiple positions and bad/lottery teams rarely have positions filled. The Hornets do..
Let's try this. Let's say the Wiz have the number 1 pick and the BPA is a PG. Do they make that pick, trade out or just select another player? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't take the PG.
quote:
And elite bigmen are extremely hard to come by, and when you have one, you win titles
This is totally overblown. Great teams win titles. D. Howard isn't going to win one anytime soon. Bynum wins them cause he's standing next to a HOF PF/C in Gasol and one of the greatest ever in Kobe. You realize Gortat is a top 5 Center right now and they aren't even making the playoffs (probably not)
Also, Drummond is not elite, not yet. Maybe he has the talent, but you have to earn it to claim it.
quote:
Also, I doubt Okafor will be with the Hornets the full next 2 years of his contract. And Kaman is a FA that will probably get overpaid
Okafor isn't going anywhere. He's not being amnestied and he has zero trade value, unless the team pays another team to take him off their hands. Kaman will either be re-signed or signed/traded. That was why the team didn't bite on all the trade offers at the deadline. Even if he does leave, Okafor and Smith is a decent combo. Especially if the team drafts a PF and Smith is pushed out of that rotation.
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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
15050 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:51 am to Jester)
quote:
I agree with this. I just don't see anything "elite" in Drummond's game.
I've made it clear that I'm not a Drummond fan, just based on what I've seen.
But his talent level is certainly elite. He might be the most "talented" player in this draft. Its just that his basketball skills are not elite. At all.
I personally wouldn't pick Drummond until 5-ish, but I can see where people are coming from in regards to taking the risk. I just wouldn't unless the value was just too high.
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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
15050 posts
| re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond (Posted on 4/16/12 at 10:52 am to brmark70816)
quote:
Okafor isn't going anywhere. He's not being amnestied and he has zero trade value, unless the team pays another team to take him off their hands. Kaman will either be re-signed or signed/traded. That was why the team didn't bite on all the trade offers at the deadline. Even if he does leave, Okafor and Smith is a decent combo. Especially if the team drafts a PF and Smith is pushed out of that rotation.
I think Okafor will not play out his contract for the Hornets. I would be very surprised if he did.
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