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Message
re: Thoughts on Andre Drummond
Posted on 4/14/12 at 6:11 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 4/14/12 at 6:11 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
We don't hate him, he just scares us to death. 1st pick no, 2nd pick definitely.
This
1
Posted on 4/14/12 at 7:57 pm to Jester
I won't make excuses for him. I'm tired of it.
Underestimate him at your own discretion. His ceiling is 2nd to none. Right there tied with Anthony Davis. Unless he gets hurt a lot, he won't fade into obscurity. Players that big, that athletic just don't bust as hard as people seem to think he will.
He didn't dominate in college even though he should have.
That's the complaint. 18 years old. 6'11" ish, 260+. Fastest player on UCONN. Crazy athleticism. Didn't dominate. So pass on him?
Eh. I can see why some would be wary, especially in a draft this deep and there's more guys who can come in and be solid right away. But if we want to dominate the NBA down the line, we need players with overwhelming ability.
Drummond has that. And how can you tell me an 18 year old has already proven he can't succeed in the NBA? It defies simple logic. Is there a risk? Sure. But I'm a risk taker.
Underestimate him at your own discretion. His ceiling is 2nd to none. Right there tied with Anthony Davis. Unless he gets hurt a lot, he won't fade into obscurity. Players that big, that athletic just don't bust as hard as people seem to think he will.
He didn't dominate in college even though he should have.
That's the complaint. 18 years old. 6'11" ish, 260+. Fastest player on UCONN. Crazy athleticism. Didn't dominate. So pass on him?
Eh. I can see why some would be wary, especially in a draft this deep and there's more guys who can come in and be solid right away. But if we want to dominate the NBA down the line, we need players with overwhelming ability.
Drummond has that. And how can you tell me an 18 year old has already proven he can't succeed in the NBA? It defies simple logic. Is there a risk? Sure. But I'm a risk taker.
This post was edited on 4/14/12 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 4/14/12 at 7:59 pm to Eman5805
quote:
I won't make excuses for him. I'm tired of it.
Underestimate him at your own discretion. His ceiling is 2nd to none. Right there tied with Anthony Davis. Unless he gets hurt a lot, he won't fade into obscurity. Players that big, that athletic just don't bust as hard as people seem to think he will.
He didn't dominate in college even though he should have.
That's the complaint. 18 years old. 6'11" ish, 260+. Fastest player on UCONN. Crazy athleticism. Didn't dominate. So pass on him?
Eh. I can see why some would be wary, especially in a draft this deep and there's more guys who can come in and be solid right away. But if we want to dominate the NBA down the line, we need players with overwhelming ability.
Drummond has that. And how can you tell me an 18 year old has already proven he can't succeed in the NBA? It defies simple logic. Is there a risk? Sure. But I'm a risk taker.
This
Posted on 4/14/12 at 8:00 pm to BIGDAB
quote:
I would not draft him in the first round.
Wut?
Not with our first pick I can understand. I like him right behind Davis, MKG, Beal, and T-rob, but not a first rounder? He would walk into the NBA as likely the 2nd most athletic center in the league after Dwight. He was also a great shot blocker and a good rebounder at Uconn.
These concerns you have? People had the same concerns about Andrew Bynum and Deandre Jordan. He was also at a shitty situation at Uconn with his Coach and games where the guards shut him out of the offense. He also had dominate games against elite competition.
If he is available with our Minny pick and we don't take him I will riot.
This post was edited on 4/14/12 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 4/14/12 at 8:01 pm to Eman5805
quote:
And how can you tell me an 18 year old has already proven he can't succeed in the NBA? It defies simple logic. Is there a risk? Sure. But I'm a risk taker.
There is a lot of risk. He hasn't proven that he can't succeed, but he was even farther from proving he can succeed
Posted on 4/14/12 at 8:04 pm to Jester
quote:
There is a lot of risk. He hasn't proven that he can't succeed, but he was even farther from proving he can succeed
There is a risk that MKG never develops an offensive game and becomes a shorter Trevor Ariza or the risk that Barnes' game doesn't translate and becomes the second Marvin Williams.
Ill take Drummond's risk/reward against Barnes' risk/reward any day.
Posted on 4/14/12 at 8:13 pm to LSUSaintsHornets
He showed nothing in the way of intangibles like heart, instinct, or basketball iq in college. Let's be honest: he sucked.
Yes, his talent is superb. Yes, his ceiling is the highest of anyone...it might even be higher than Davis. The problem is that it appears the odds are slim of him reaching those heights. Very slim.
He is a massive risk. I just wouldn't pick him until 4th or so and if Davis, TRob, and Beal are gone.
Yes, his talent is superb. Yes, his ceiling is the highest of anyone...it might even be higher than Davis. The problem is that it appears the odds are slim of him reaching those heights. Very slim.
He is a massive risk. I just wouldn't pick him until 4th or so and if Davis, TRob, and Beal are gone.
Posted on 4/14/12 at 8:32 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
heart, instinct, or basketball iq in college.
He showed plenty of defensive instinct in college. And how much are these intangibles helping Jimmer post one of the worst PER's of any rookie?
quote:
The problem is that it appears the odds are slim of him reaching those heights. Very slim.
Based on what? Of players of similar potential, how many have been busts? Kwame Brown and Thabeet? That's two examples. What about Bynum, D12, Cousins, and Jordan?
The fact is NBA coaching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college coaching, and the likelihood of Drummond averaging 6.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG like Kwame Brown is pretty much zero.
Posted on 4/14/12 at 9:02 pm to LSUSaintsHornets
Drummond at worst will be a real good defender. He's got the size and athleticism, but also has great instincts.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 1:26 am to VOR
Raw undeveloped talent with questionable work ethic and heart. Coul be good if he wants it bad enough
Posted on 4/15/12 at 8:05 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
Based on what? Of players of similar potential, how many have been busts? Kwame Brown and Thabeet? That's two examples. What about Bynum, D12, Cousins, and Jordan? The fact is NBA coaching >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> college coaching, and the likelihood of Drummond averaging 6.8 PPG and 5.6 RPG like Kwame Brown is pretty much zero
How many drafts would you like to go back? Centers/PFs bust all the time. That's why they don't go top 10 very often. The first Center taken this past year was Kanter. He was the top HS recruit in the world until the NCAA made him ineligible. He is the same as Drummond, raw, huge, talented, semi-skilled. He is averaging 4.4, 4.4. Maybe he'll develop, but it takes time with Centers.
I'll go through a 5 year period (05-09) and list all the lottery failures at PF/C. They are Jordan Hill, Tyler Hansbrough, Thabeet, A. Randolph, Jason Thompson, Beasley (?), Oden, Jeff Green, Yi, Brandan Wright, Ty Thomas, Shelden Williams, Pat Obryant, Sene, Hilton Armstrong, Villanueva, Channing Frye, Diogu, Fran Vasquez and Sean May. I could have included more but I was being generous. That is 20 busts in 5 years.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 8:07 am to jojothetireguy
Questionable work ethic? According to who? I'm being serious. Never heard a peep about it officially. But someone on another site did say a UCONN coach said he works hard.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 8:30 am to Eman5805
quote:
His ceiling is 2nd to none. Right there tied with Anthony Davis. Unless he gets hurt a lot, he won't fade into obscurity. Players that big, that athletic just don't bust as hard as people seem to think he will.
Again, I haven't seen him play very much, but this the sense I get from people who have. The guy seems to have everything it takes physically . . . maybe even more than Davis. Of course, he's a risk. Every player in this draft is a "risk" other than Davis (and, frankly, until we watch him play in the NBA even he is somewhat of a "risk"). But I really don't think he's Kwame Brown. And I damn sure don't think he's Hilton Armstrong or Thabeet.
Look, I'm not really don't intend to be a huge advocate for the guy. I'd certainly take Davis or Robinson if available with our first pick. If they're gone, it depends upon where we sit and who's available. But I do know I'd damned sure take the guy with our second pick if he's there.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 9:36 am to brmark70816
quote:
How many drafts would you like to go back? Centers/PFs bust all the time.
In the late lottery maybe. Then again a lot of players regardless of position in the late loterry bust.
quote:
The first Center taken this past year was Kanter. He was the top HS recruit in the world until the NCAA made him ineligible. He is the same as Drummond, raw, huge, talented, semi-skilled.
Wut? Have you seen Kanter play? Chad Ford's evaluation says "Very skilled, can do just about everything", and "Not an explosive athlete". HE is nothing like Andre Drummond, as has no where near the potential Drummond has. But still, yes he is likely a bust.
quote:
Jordan Hill
Late Lottery pick, Not as much potential
quote:
Tyler Hansbrough
Really? Tyler Hansborough? He is exactly like everyone in the world projected him to be in the NBA. He had zero potential coming out of college.
quote:
Thompson
Another late lottery pick who is about what we thought he would be coming out of college, a contributer.
quote:
Beasley
Who knows if this guy will bust yet or not. He is a disappointment right now but he has played really well in stretches.
quote:
Jeff Green
Dude Jeff Green is a SF. Had good years in OKC and is now injured, not sure why this guy is on this list.
quote:
Pat Obryant
Again late lottery pick not of similar talent.
quote:
Sene
Same
quote:
Hilton Armstrong
Same
quote:
Villanueva
Maybe for what he is making. Definitley not a bust for his draft position.
quote:
Channing Frye, Diogu, Fran Vasquez and Sean May
Again none of these players where even in the top half of the lottery, and none of them where rated anywhere near as high by scouts.
Lets go with a REAL list of players who compare from past 5 years.
Derrick Williams (Too early to tell)
Kanter (Looking like bust)
Jonas Valanciunas (Too early to tell)
Tristan Thompson (Too early to tell)
Derrick Favors (Too early to tell)
Cousins (Future Star)
Monroe (Possible All star)
Griffin (Star)
Thabeet (Bust)
Beasley (Too early to tell)
Love (Star)
Oden (Bust)
Horford (Met expectations)
Tyrus (Bust)
Aldridge (All Star)
Bargnani (?)
Big men with top 5 talent don't bust nearly as much as you guys want to believe.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 9:52 am to LSUSaintsHornets
You kept talking about Bynum and he was a late lottery guy. So I figured that's what you were talking about. I went 05-09 cause I knew it was too early on the past couple of drafts.
Green is a combo forward. How could he mainly play SF playing with Durant? He played PF and got moved when they knew Ibaka was ready to take over. The Celts talked about him being a SF, but he doesn't have the perimeter skills.
I never said he was the athlete Drummond is, but he is/was considered a better prospect. You can only re-write history so much. Kanter has as much or more potential as Drummond. Not sure where you are getting that from.
It happens alot more than you seem to think though. 7 out of 17 listed as stars (or potential) isn't a good percentage, especially in the top 5 of the draft. Those guys should be lock starters. I can see why some guys are nervous to make that pick.
Drummond has talent and major upside. I don't think his year at UCONN was really that bad, especially when you consider the circumstances and talent around him. He's just too raw for me, in the top 5. I'd grab him if he fell a bit though.
quote:
Dude Jeff Green is a SF. Had good years in OKC and is now injured, not sure why this guy is on this list.
Green is a combo forward. How could he mainly play SF playing with Durant? He played PF and got moved when they knew Ibaka was ready to take over. The Celts talked about him being a SF, but he doesn't have the perimeter skills.
quote:
Wut? Have you seen Kanter play? Chad Ford's evaluation says "Very skilled, can do just about everything", and "Not an explosive athlete". HE is nothing like Andre Drummond, as has no where near the potential Drummond has. But still, yes he is likely a bust
I never said he was the athlete Drummond is, but he is/was considered a better prospect. You can only re-write history so much. Kanter has as much or more potential as Drummond. Not sure where you are getting that from.
quote:
Big men with top 5 talent don't bust nearly as much as you guys want to believe.
It happens alot more than you seem to think though. 7 out of 17 listed as stars (or potential) isn't a good percentage, especially in the top 5 of the draft. Those guys should be lock starters. I can see why some guys are nervous to make that pick.
Drummond has talent and major upside. I don't think his year at UCONN was really that bad, especially when you consider the circumstances and talent around him. He's just too raw for me, in the top 5. I'd grab him if he fell a bit though.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 10:17 am to brmark70816
quote:
Green is a combo forward. How could he mainly play SF playing with Durant? He played PF and got moved when they knew Ibaka was ready to take over. The Celts talked about him being a SF, but he doesn't have the perimeter skills.
He was projected as a small forward and moved to power forward because of Durant. He is not a big man prospect unless you are using the loosest definition of the term.
quote:
I never said he was the athlete Drummond is, but he is/was considered a better prospect. You can only re-write history so much. Kanter has as much or more potential as Drummond. Not sure where you are getting that from.
Yeah you are 100% wrong. Kanter was the 4th pick in a weak draft, and sure as hell wasn't getting Amare and Dwight comparisons. There was never buzz that Kanter had star potential. quote:
He's just too raw for me, in the top 5. I'd grab him if he fell a bit though.
I think he is the 5th best prospect in the draft.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 10:32 am to LSUSaintsHornets
quote:
Yeah you are 100% wrong. Kanter was the 4th pick in a weak draft, and sure as hell wasn't getting Amare and Dwight comparisons. There was never buzz that Kanter had star potential.
Hello pot, this is the kettle. He was the 3rd pick. Yeah, he got comparisons to Tim Duncan (bleacher report). It's not an exact science to be sure..
Posted on 4/15/12 at 10:40 am to brmark70816
quote:
Yeah, he got comparisons to Tim Duncan (bleacher report).
Did you really just cite Bleacher Report to make a point about what common thinking was? You might as well have said "he got comparisons to Tim Duncan (my crazy uncle Larry)."
This whole argument is stupid anyway. The questions about Drummond are not ones that we are capable of answering. Personal interviews and background checks are what it will take. Demps and Monty will be in the last year of their deal this offseason and Drummond is a project even if he meets his ceiling. If we draft Drummond I think that would mean Demps got the answers we are trying to guess at.
Posted on 4/15/12 at 10:49 am to Eman5805
quote:
Questionable work ethic? According to who? I'm being serious. Never heard a peep about it officially. But someone on another site did say a UCONN coach said he works hard.
Going by different articles I've read. The head coach is not going to say he doesn't work hard, ya know. Basically by the coach saying that he was trying to negate what everyone else is saying about him not working hard.
The problem is, these kids are so much better than everyone else in high school that they don't need to work on to much at that level. When then enter college for one year and leave it doesn't give the coaches time to develop and prepare them for the nba. Especially kids with raw talent, that's why we see a lot of big men bust IMO. Not enough time to develop there skills before being overwhelmed in the pros
Posted on 4/15/12 at 11:50 am to TigerinATL
Hey now, my crazy Uncle Larry knows basketball.
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