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TheSexecutioner 
Gonzaga Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1964 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:46 pm to DestrehanTiger)
quote:
I just don't think there is a problem that needs fixing. If we keep bringing up data and averages, why not bring up the growing popularity of the game while the goal has remained the same size for decades (I actually could be wrong there, not really sure).
Yes, and that data will also show that popularity is rising while flopping has stayed in the game. Does that mean flopping is a great part of the game that we shouldn't try to fix? Some may say yes, but not me.
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TheSexecutioner
Gonzaga Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1964 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:47 pm to rockchlkjayhku11)
quote:
"if it aint broke, dont fix it."
is there an actual problem with goal size now? no. so, why change it and risk tainting the best game on the planet?
Did you read the rest of the thread? The problems have been brought up and debated upon. Your assertion that if there is no problem, that no solution needs be explored was one already shared by both sides of this argument.
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BleedPurpleGold 
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
12212 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:48 pm to Ryne Sandberg)
quote:
1. blow up Old Trafford
2. no more Man U
3. enjoy futbol
1. see above
2. see above
3. see above
other optional changes:
4. Make hitting the post count as two goals.
5. Stipulate that whomever Jamie Carragher is marking cannot use his head to score.
6. Put goals on top of, and next to (left and right) of the existing goal that only Charlie Adam may score in.
7. If the game ball makes contact with any inflatable beach toy, the game automatically ends with Liverpool being declared the winner.
8. Whenever a penalty kick is awarded to Liverpool we may treat it as a complete set of extra time penalty kicks with the usual 5 chances to score. Each net is counted as a goal.
*** Suggestion 8 however is not considered an unfair advantage because most likely all 5 kick takers will miss their shots.
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DestrehanTiger 
Duke Fan
Houston, TX by way of Louisiana
Member since Nov 2005
7447 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:52 pm to TheSexecutioner)
quote:
Yes, and that data will also show that popularity is rising while flopping has stayed in the game. Does that mean flopping is a great part of the game that we shouldn't try to fix? Some may say yes, but not me.
Simulation is illegal. Flopping is a result of rules not being enforced properly.
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TheSexecutioner
Gonzaga Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1964 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 3:56 pm to DestrehanTiger)
quote:
Simulation is illegal. Flopping is a result of rules not being enforced properly.
Irrelevant whether it is illegal or not. It is a negative part of the game that has been about while soccer's popularity rose.
My point is soccer gained popularity in spite of flopping. It is possible for something to gain popularity without being ideal.
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:01 pm to VanRIch)
Why is there such a stigma associated with a physical change? I feel like when someone suggests making the goals wider people imagine a goal expanding to silly proportions and a goalie helplessly flailing at a wounded duck 30 yard shot as it limps into the goal. Making the goal bigger by inches on each side would be barely noticeable from the field and indiscernible from the stands.
I support preserving the art of the game as much as the next guy, and will cite it as my favorite thing about the sport, but my opinion is that in too many games the final score doesn't represent the quality of the game played by each side. I don't want to see 11-6 games or 9-0 routs every week because I love watching goals, I just want to see more 2-1 and 4-2 games rather than 1-1 and 0-0 ties because I think that in soccer, more than any other sport, an entire game of quality play can be nullified by a single referee's decision or pure chance. Every sport has chance and turns of events that make each match unique and interesting, I know. I just think that adjusting the game so that shot creation is more rewarded would make the game flow much better as well as making for more fair results. When a team gets up a goal the other team cranks up the intensity to try and equalize, but too many games just plod on without much incentive for either team to take a risk.
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:07 pm to NOTORlOUSD)
quote:
If someone came up with rule tweaks to bring the MLS to 3.19 like the Eredivisie, I would be willing to listen. I think the argument about teams bunkering has merit. FIFA took action against it 20 years ago by awarding three points for a win instead of two, but there are still more options out there. NASL had extra lines to prevent teams from putting too many players on defense.
Expanding the goal would not be my first choice for a rule change because too many of the goals would be scored from dead balls. I think one underlying problem is that the games don't get stretched until the second half. I think the most effective rule changes would be aimed at getting more action right from the opening kickoff.
I tend to agree with what you've said here and I think you make a great point about cutting down on "dead time" and somehow kickstarting the action as a way to increase the functional length of the game and allowing more time for the teams to compete and separate themselves.
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VanRIch
LSU Fan
Covington, La
Member since Sep 2007
2281 posts
 Online
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:14 pm to TheMuffinMan)
So for Muffin and Sexecutioner, not because you haven't said it, but can you just clarify in one sentence your desire for bigger goals. Is it just to score more?
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:15 pm to GeorgeTheGreek)
quote:
I don't want anymore scoring than there is ... I like that the game is tough ... that's what makes it great ... and to those that don't know the game - understandably more boring.
I enjoy the weight that a goal carries and how much of an accomplishment it is, but I don't think that most of the shots you see hit the post make you think "Man, I'm glad that post wasn't a few inches further over bc that chance didn't result from quality buildup and a good shot."
This post was edited on 3/26 at 4:21 pm
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:17 pm to VanRIch)
Yeah absolutely. As a means by which the average goals scored per game would increase. I think one of the biggest flaws in the game is that teams can overcome crappy play with luck/officiating because of the lack of scoring. Not because I love watching goals.
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VanRIch
LSU Fan
Covington, La
Member since Sep 2007
2281 posts
Online
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:20 pm to TheMuffinMan)
I think a shot that hits the post, regardless of buildup is really exciting. I think Pique would agree with me after this past weekend. To me lower scoring leads to more excitment of the game, the last thing I want is more goals. I'm not being an elitist about it, I just love the sport for what it is.
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VanRIch
LSU Fan
Covington, La
Member since Sep 2007
2281 posts
Online
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:26 pm to TheMuffinMan)
Well I guess that I view it, that if Barcelona is playing the USA U23 team, and Barcelona can only get in one goal and the USA lucks out and gets a goal and ties, then thats Barcelonas fault. Because fact is, if USA plays crappy ball, then Barca will score 10. If they don't then it's called an upset and it happens in every sport. I know I'm taking two ends of the spectrum with that example, but it illustrates my point. Another thing I think some people don't get is even though Barcelona is playing Mallorca, they're still a top world team in La Liga, the competition is going to be a bit tighter. These clubs sign kids who've been playing soccer all their life. They're damn good players and I'd say always have a shot at knocking off the kings.
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:26 pm to VanRIch)
No I totally agree that hitting the post is exciting--I didn't suggest putting two Velcro strips 25 feet apart and any shots that stuck counted. Shots would still hit the post 
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:29 pm to VanRIch)
No I love the fact that upsets happen in soccer, I just want them to be earned through that team playing over its head or the favorite underperforming rather than through chance or poor officiating. Those things are unavoidable, so I would like to see their effect on the game reduced.
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Jumbeauxlaya
LSU Fan
Denham
Member since Jan 2011
15556 posts
Online
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:33 pm to TheMuffinMan)
If any part of soccer needs to be larger, its the width of the pitch IMO, would open up the play like described earlier.
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 4:49 pm to Jumbeauxlaya)
Would it? I don't know if this would lead to more scoring chances as much as it would just increase the value of wing play. It would make it easier for team to keep possession, but because of that it might make defenses tend to bunker more because high pressure is less likely to dispossess the opponent. Bunkering is harder with more space to defend though, so perhaps you are correct in thinking that play would open up. If that increased the average goals per game to 3.5 or so I would be all for it
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TheSexecutioner
Gonzaga Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1964 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 5:06 pm to VanRIch)
quote:
So for Muffin and Sexecutioner, not because you haven't said it, but can you just clarify in one sentence your desire for bigger goals. Is it just to score more?
As a means, not an end. If there was more of a threat of scoring a goal, a team would not play for a tie when going up 1.
If there were bigger goals, a team who takes a 1 goal lead would not be able to just sit on it and play defense. They would still have a strong incentive to play offense, because a 2 goal lead is much more valuable if the other team could easily score. Sort of like hockey.
To put it in a sentence, the reason I would want bigger goals is to increase the incentive to try to score. Obviously, the only way to do that is to increase the probability of scoring.
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joey barton
TBD Fan
Member since Feb 2011
5750 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 5:20 pm to TheMuffinMan)
quote:
But since when is rewarding successful offense undesirable?
It's already rewarded, isn't it? It's not as if the "lucky" team was attacking unsuccessfully.
The current iteration of the game punishes mistakes. That's what I like about it. Very rarely do I finish watching a game and go, "wow, that team was really lucky." It happens, but I'm not sure the game in its current form is unfair to teams who attack successfully. Want to win? Don't let Emile Heskey equalize on his only shot of the game, and for the most part, good teams do that.
Real Madrid has claimed 86% of 87 possible points in La Liga so far. What is fair for you?
This post was edited on 3/26 at 5:28 pm
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TheMuffinMan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2011
47 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 6:13 pm to joey barton)
I know it is rewarded, I was referencing you saying that you don't want to see Real score all the time because they create so many chances. Scoring a lucky goal does require that the team get into position for the ball to bounce their way, but the fewer goals that are scored the more important the flukes are, and i don't like that. I don't think the game is unfair to any teams, but I think that the game could be improved by slightly increasing scoring because it would make victories more indicative of superior play.
I don't know what point you are trying to make about RM dominating La Liga. Have they not been the best team in the league this year?
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joey barton
TBD Fan
Member since Feb 2011
5750 posts
| re: If you could change the game of soccer...? (Posted on 3/26/12 at 6:37 pm to TheMuffinMan)
That over the course of a season, tournament, etc. results reflect superior play and nothing really needs to change as a consequence. If we minimize the effect of a "fluke" goal, how often are teams that consistently "outplay" their opponents going to drop points? Never?
The current system rewards effective attacking play and appropriately punishes the mistakes of teams who would drop points very rarely otherwise.
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