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New Style of RBBC--Ingrams inflated value
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:20 am
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:20 am
It seems this year we are seeing a shift of more teams dividing up RB workload by field position.
It appears 3 teams are shifting to inside/outside 20s to determine whic RB will be in the game.
DEN (Moreno/McGahee), SD (Matthews/Tolbert), and NO(Pierre, Ingram)all reportedly are planning on this.
So this leads to my question--Ingram is the only one outside the 20s being drafted way higher than the counterpart.
Why the hell is? Especially when he won't see a 3rd down unless its inside the 5.
If indeed we value the outside the 20s rusher more, why are Tolbert and McGahee going way later than their counterparts?
It appears 3 teams are shifting to inside/outside 20s to determine whic RB will be in the game.
DEN (Moreno/McGahee), SD (Matthews/Tolbert), and NO(Pierre, Ingram)all reportedly are planning on this.
So this leads to my question--Ingram is the only one outside the 20s being drafted way higher than the counterpart.
Why the hell is? Especially when he won't see a 3rd down unless its inside the 5.
If indeed we value the outside the 20s rusher more, why are Tolbert and McGahee going way later than their counterparts?
This post was edited on 8/22/11 at 10:22 am
3
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:26 am to Toula
Ingram will live on the Goal line this year.
from CBS:
from CBS:
quote:
Mark Ingram/Pierre Thomas/Darren Sproles, Saints
Average Draft Position: Ingram in Round 5, Thomas in Round 11, Sproles not being drafted
Ingram has so much potential that he should be a Fantasy star this year, and he and Daniel Thomas will go back and forth for the No. 1 rookie honor. But as long as Pierre Thomas remains in the mix, with Sproles working on passing downs, Ingram's value could be somewhat limited. Ingram and Thomas could share work on rushing downs, and Sproles will be on the field during passing situations. We consider Ingram a No. 2 Fantasy running back, but Thomas should still be drafted with a late-round pick. He's a steal in Round 11. As for Sproles, he's not worth drafting in the majority of standard leagues, but he should be taken with a late-round selection in all PPR formats.
Rushing downs split: 60/35/5 Ingram/Thomas/Sproles
Passing downs split: 50/30/20 Sproles/Thomas/Ingram
Goal-line split: 50/40/10 Ingram/Thomas/Sproles
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:31 am to CE Tiger
So what makes him different than Tolbert or Brandon Jacobs?
The main reason everyone is drafting Ingram is this goalline back tag..realistically, how many goalline rushing TDs are there?
The main reason everyone is drafting Ingram is this goalline back tag..realistically, how many goalline rushing TDs are there?
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:32 am to Toula
quote:
So this leads to my question--Ingram is the only one outside the 20s being drafted way higher than the counterpart. Why the hell is?
You are drafting with Saintards?
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:33 am to Toula
I think Thomas will be an afterthought sooner than later... the main difference in all these scenarios is that Ingram is a guy they drafted to be "the guy."
In Denver, Moreno was the high round pick and McGahee is a stop gap.
In San Diego, they envision Mathews as the lead-dog back going forward.
Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see all of these scenarios play out with McGahee, Ingram and Tolbert becoming the no. 1 backs on their respective teams.
But I think Ingram from a talent and competition standpoint is the clear cut guy to end up becoming the lead horse and never looking back.
In Denver, Moreno was the high round pick and McGahee is a stop gap.
In San Diego, they envision Mathews as the lead-dog back going forward.
Though, I wouldn't be surprised to see all of these scenarios play out with McGahee, Ingram and Tolbert becoming the no. 1 backs on their respective teams.
But I think Ingram from a talent and competition standpoint is the clear cut guy to end up becoming the lead horse and never looking back.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:44 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
You are drafting with Saintards
quote:
Ingram is the best running back for the Saints this season, and he is worth drafting as a Top 25 RB in all Fantasy leagues this year. Thomas and Sproles will take away touches, but Ingram should lead New Orleans in touchdowns. He is a Top 3 pick in rookie-only drafts, and Ingram should be excellent in his rookie campaign.
quote:]
Fantasy Outlook:
Ingram is a top No. 2 back fantasy back his rookie season. He will lose some touches as the Saints like to rotate some backs, but Ingram will get plenty of chances in a good offense. He'll also get the goal-line work, giving him the potential to get double-digit scores. He can run for 1,000 or so yards, giving him the potential to finish first in rookie scoring.
quote:
It's fair to believe Ingram can lead New Orleans in carries and rushing yards
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:44 am to OBUDan
Tolbert is too fat. He might get some goal line carries but he's looked awful this preseason. Matthews will be the guy.
McGahee still has some gas left in the tank but I like Moreno's ability to catch the ball. I like him a lot more than most do. I think he could have a really good year.
Ingram is good but Pierre isn't going to be an afterthought. If anything they'll split carries 50/50. I don't like Pierre a bunch in terms of fantasy this year, but he'll def take touches away from Ingram.
McGahee still has some gas left in the tank but I like Moreno's ability to catch the ball. I like him a lot more than most do. I think he could have a really good year.
Ingram is good but Pierre isn't going to be an afterthought. If anything they'll split carries 50/50. I don't like Pierre a bunch in terms of fantasy this year, but he'll def take touches away from Ingram.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:49 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:
If anything they'll split carries 50/50
I agree on this..and neither will see the field on 3rd down.
So how is a RB in a 50/50 split who won't see the field on 3rd down being drafted so high?
I just don't see this. Especially given Payton's RB usage history.
I do value Ingram over Tolbert and McGahee. But they all have the "goalline" back label. and both proved they can perform last year
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:51 am to Toula
I think Pierre has a shot at being in on 3rd down plays, but that's Sproles' role.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:52 am to Toula
People forget how good Pierre is since he was banged up last year
Take a look at the saints SB season video and you'll see how good Pierre is.
Take a look at the saints SB season video and you'll see how good Pierre is.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 10:56 am to GynoSandberg
I love me some Frenchy...all you had to do was watch the 1st couple preseason games to get an idea of Peyton's plan with the RB..it's like they rotate every single play.
Just trying to have some intelligent FFB talk on a Monday morning
Just trying to have some intelligent FFB talk on a Monday morning
Posted on 8/22/11 at 11:20 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
People forget how good Pierre is since he was banged up last year
He's solid, but he's not a workhorse. There's nothing exceptional about his game. He's just a decent all-around RB, best served as a backup.
If you are buying on Ingram, you are buying that Payton is going ot use him like he did Deuce McCallister and that eventually his talent is going to win out in this backfield.
I'm not sure where I stand on it all, because I'm not overwhelmed by Ingram from a talent standpoint, but I do think he's superior to Pierre in every way and in that offense that could equal huge numbers...
Posted on 8/22/11 at 11:25 am to Toula
to me it stems from Pierre Thomas being injury prone. One injury and Ingram is the man. Not to mention he will get a lot of touches to being with.
as far as Ingram being drafted by Saintards, well, he is going in the 5th round(in 12 team drafts) on ESPN. Its not just people from this area taking him high.
as far as Ingram being drafted by Saintards, well, he is going in the 5th round(in 12 team drafts) on ESPN. Its not just people from this area taking him high.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 11:32 am to Lester Earl
To me Ingram is the kinda boom/bust pick that can win you a league or blow up in your face.
If you "reach" on him in the 3rd/4th and he ends up being the Saints lead back and puts up 1,300 yards and double digit TDs, you look like a genius.
If you "reach" on him that high and he ends up in a committee and goes for 600-700 and a few TDs, you'll probably maroon your chances at winning.
If you "reach" on him in the 3rd/4th and he ends up being the Saints lead back and puts up 1,300 yards and double digit TDs, you look like a genius.
If you "reach" on him that high and he ends up in a committee and goes for 600-700 and a few TDs, you'll probably maroon your chances at winning.
Posted on 8/22/11 at 3:11 pm to OBUDan
quote:
In Denver, Moreno was the high round pick and McGahee is a stop gap.
In San Diego, they envision Mathews as the lead-dog back going forward.
I think this is mostly what it is. People have seen McGahee, and it isn't special. People aren't buying into Tolbert for whatever reason. They have also seen flashes from Moreno and Matthews. Ingram carries an unknown that attracts people. Besides, it is a pretty big crap shoot after the top 20ish RBs. If anything, people are just undervaluing McGahee and Tolbert.
Posted on 8/29/11 at 7:40 am to CE Tiger
quote:
Ingram will live on the Goal line this year.
Did I see Pierre Thomas get a goal line TD last night?
Posted on 8/29/11 at 7:48 am to Toula
quote:
how many goalline rushing TDs are there?
I know its just preseason, but the Saints had 3 just last night. All three rbs converted on those opportunities.
In the regular season, one would have to assume that Ingram would get at least 80-90% of those carries. Esp. the way he has handled them so far this preseason.
Posted on 8/29/11 at 8:06 am to jembeurt
quote:
one would have to assume that Ingram would get at least 80-90% of those carries.
Why would you assume this when Thomas got one last night?
quote:
but the Saints had 3 just last night.
GL TDs are luck..each time WR was tackled on the 1.
Posted on 8/29/11 at 8:13 am to Toula
Would you'll value Ingram over someone like Fred Jackson in a PPR?
Posted on 8/29/11 at 9:40 am to RunningHeel
quote:
Would you'll value Ingram over someone like Fred Jackson in a PPR?
I wouldnt. fred jackson is proven.
I love ingram, but I wouldnt trust drafting him high. First off, he is sharing carries between 3 rb's, and we have ivory still recovering off of injury.
Sean Payton is just not a one rb coach. He is going to split up the carries. plus pierre thomas is just too good to sit the bench.
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