re: LSU Football 1989....what happened?

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What is amazing is I remember back during the Hallman years wondering if we would ever be good at football again

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You and me both. My freshman year at LSU was 1992. I remember sitting in the student section while watching Florida and Auburn beat the living shite out of us thinking that all of the talk of the good ole days and Billy Cannon and winning National Championships were just a thing of the past. This is why when 2003 Title happened, I teared up thinking about all those thoughts. I was in shock.

And to think that most of the student section sitting in Tiger Stadium today wasn't even born yet in 89...

Doesn't add up? Did it happen or not? Seriously, I was very angry when the Tigers passed on Spurrier and Arnsbarger hired him at Florida after he advised the Tigers to hire Archer over Spurrier. Believe what you want. You can't change history. That is exactly what happened.

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Arnsparger may have soured on LSU, but I have never bought this baloney about him setting up LSU and having a grand plan for Florida with Spurrier. Doesn't add up.

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I got to meet Coach Arnsparger a couple of years ago and he has very fond memories of LSU and had nothing but good to say about it.

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Arnsbarger new that the talent level was drained, that is why he left LSU.

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The reason SLU & USL exist.

Those players drafted were recruited and signed by Jerry Stovall. Go back and name the recruits that went to the pros that were signed by Arnsbarger.

WildTchoupitoulas
You seem not to understand, Mike Archer has nothing to due with in state talent level or the NFL draft.

It was just luck Saban became head coach at LSU when the state in 2001 has it's best overall class since 1956.

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one player that signed out of state made All American in the years of 1986-1990.

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So?

By your logic, the starters we had on the 2003 and 2007 NC teams who didn't happen to make All-American, would have been interchangable with second rate talent from other states? Because that's essentially what you're saying- that if they didn't make All-American elsewhere, they aren't much of a loss. Which is absurd. If a Louisiana player was good enough to start for a top 5 program elsewhere (if I am not mistaken Colorado and Florida State had several who were signed during Archer's tenure at LSU) then he was almost certainly better than whomever was playing that position at LSU. Which means it was a recruiting letdown. Now whether or not Archer is to "blame" for that is debateable, given the Prop 48 situation, etc.

But if that's going to be your argument that recruiting didn't fall off during the Archer years, then it's a faulty way to approach it. I'm not saying you're wrong to defend Archer, I'm saying the way you do so is fallacious.

Posted on LSUsports.net are the full recruiting classes while Bill A. was head coach:

1986
HEAD COACH BILL ARNSPARGER
PK David Browndyke, Dallas, Texas
DL/OL Frank Conley, Miami Springs, Fla.
LB Brian Cusick, Jacksonville, Fla.
LB Jason Delmore, Gonzales, La.
TB Eddie Fuller, Leesville, La.
QB Sol Graves, Monroe, La.
TE Ronnie Haliburton, Port Arthur, Texas
DL/OL Bien Harbin, Mobile, Ala.
DB/WR Tony Houston, Ruston, La.
DB/WR Malcolm Kraut, Beaumont, Texas
TB Alvin Lee, Beaumont, Texas
LB Jay Mayet, Galliano, La.
OL Blake Miller, Alexandria, La.
DB Rick Orebo, Orange, Texas
OL Brian Puckett, Monroe, La.
OL Steve Reading, Belle Chasse, La.
RB/WR Derrick Saulsberry, Thibodaux, La.
WR Leon "Tyke" Tolbert, Conroe, Texas
QB Leonard Valentine, Marrero, La.
RB Walker "Slip" Watkins, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
RB Harvey Williams, Hempstead, Texas
TE Willie Williams, Houston, Texas
RB Calvin Windom, Orlando, Fla.

1985
HEAD COACH BILL ARNSPARGER
OT Mike Babineaux, Aldine, Texas
S Jamie Bice, Lake Charles, La.
CB John Childers, Orlando, Fla.
WR Craig Dartez, Cecilia, La.
DE Kenny Davidson, Shreveport, La.
TB Ricky Davidson, Bay City, Texas
TE Karl Dunbar, Plaisance, La.
CB Troy Filer, St. Martinville, La.
OG Chris Frigo, New Orleans, La.
LB Eric Hill, Galveston, Texas
QB Tommy Hodson, Mathews, La.
OT Jim Hubicz, Sharon, Pa.
S Greg Jackson, Miami, Fla.
DE Clint James, New Orleans, La.
RB Victor Jones, Zachary, La.
RB Randy Keiser, Miami, Fla.
LB Oliver Lawrence, Monroe, La.
TB Tony Moss, Bossier City, La.
LB Mike Murla, New Orleans, La.
QB/P Keith Murray, Theodore, Ala.
WR Daryl Owens, Beaumont, Texas
OT Robert Packnett, New Orleans, La.
OT Chris Pettaway, Miami, Fla.
OG Ruffin Rodrigue, Jr., Thibodaux, La.
LB Nebojsa Somaz, Sharon, Pa.
SS Scott Templet, Baton Rouge, La.

1984
HEAD COACH BILL ARNSPARGER
C Nacho Albergamo, Marrero, La.
DL Eric Andolsek, Thibodaux, La.
DB Willie Bryant, Ft.Walton, Fla.
OL Todd Coutee, Eunice, La.
WR Wendell Davis, Shreveport, La.
F Matt DeFrank, Ft.Walton, Fla.
OL Gerry Edgens, Baker, La.
OL Chris Feught, Lafayette, La.
WR Danny Fletcher, Ferriday, La.
OL Jimmy Goodrum, Central Lafourche, La.
QB Mickey Guidry, Marrero, La.
DL Mark Hall, Patterson, La.
LB Nicky Hazard, New Orleans, La.
LB Mike Hebert, New Orleans, La.
WR Glenn Holt, Miami, Fla.
RB Robert Knight, Baton Rouge, La.
RB Jamie Lawson, Central Lafourche, La.
K Ronnie Lewis, New Orleans, La.
DB Charles Mackey, Miami, Fla.
RB Sam Martin, New Orleans, La.
WR Mike Mayes, DeRidder, La.
OL Ralph Norwood, New Orleans, La.
LB Darrel Phillips, Franklin, La.
LB Mike Smith, Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.
C Chris Treat, Houston, Texas

Perhaps seeing the full classes will shed some light on the debate. Who knows.

The 1984 class was very good, but some credit Stovall with that class... fair enough. His 1985 and 1986 classes were thinner but included some "name" players... which is basically Gerry DiNardo's recruiting classes in a nutshell, and most consider him a halfway decent recruiter.

It's even stated that Archer was the primary recruiter on Arnsparger's staff. And he may have been largely responsible for the recruiting success as an assistant. But for whatever reason, our recruiting was better when Arnsparger was head coach than Archer's tenure... certainly no worse. Even with the arguments of those who credit Stovall's 5th year players for the 1987 season, at the very least, the 1988 (co-SEC champion team) starters were almost entirely players signed during the Bill A. tenure.

Archer's demise may have been a little bit of everything... a few factors beyond his control, and the fact that he was probably too young (33) to be made head coach of a program like LSU.

Carlos your making my point with your post...

The talent level is down in 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989 and 1990 compaired to a normal recruiting year in Louisiana talent wise.

You really don't think Paul was given a God send in the 1956 recruiting class, which up to that point in Louisiana football history was the best ever and still maybe the best class signed by LSU?

Without signing Jimmy Taylor in 1956, LSU loses to Tulane in 1957 and fact; Paul would have been fired.

What is your point on All-Americans?

Depth wise even during Bill's days LSU was thin, and much thinner in 1988.

What is the telling factor to the fall off in Louisiana talent?

Many, but it was mainly due to the prop 48 rule and add to it was a down cycle talent wise.

Look at the 2003 team and tell me what you see?

Depth form top to bottom, now go look at the 1988, 1989 roster and what do you see a lack of talent.

So Saban isn't lucky to come to LSU at a time the roster was deep to begin with and Louisiana had 2 great class (01 and 03) within 2 years of each other?

The 1988 was so thin, as I post if Harmon and Young don't transfer to LSU form SMU (after they got the death penalty) it is very likely LSU finishes 6-5 or 5-6.

I can sum it up... From 1960 to 2000, we were just an average program that had bright spots at times, but never any consistancy UNTIL Saban arrived and changed the dynamics of our program. Since 2000, we have been "true" contenders, year end and year out.