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T-Bob blew it and why Crowton might be worse than you think

Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:12 pm
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18004 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:12 pm
Amidst all the adulation for T-Bob Hebert for "saving" LSU by having the sense to snap the ball, I am going to present a contrary viewpoint -- that he blew it and nearly cost LSU the game.

The play was going to be a pass play. There are trips left and Terrence Toliver is in the slot and headed for the left corner of the end zone, while Deangelo Peterson is going straight up from the TE position on the other side. It appears to me that the play to Toliver is the primary read if the defensive alignment is favorable and that the route to Peterson is the alternate call if one of the DBs is playing back.

With six seconds left, Jefferson is giving the call to the line and Ridley. At five seconds, Jefferson is glancing at the WRs on the left and looking at the coverage. Ridley and Hurst are not set. At four seconds, Jefferson begins his cadence for the snap. At three seconds, Jefferson appears to be in the process of starting to stamp his leg to call for the ball, as a QB would in a visiting stadium, because the crowd noise would likely prevent his cadence from being heard. At this time, it appears to me that Jefferson is quickly looking at the defense in front of him to assess whether Peterson is likely to be open in the event that the play to Toliver isn't there.

I believe T-Bob panicked and simply snapped the ball too early. To me, Jefferson seems aware of the clock, and there was no way that his cadence was going to last three more seconds. Contrary to popular opinion, it appears that T-Bob, rather than Jefferson, is the one who lacked clock awareness.

It does not matter whether the ball is snapped with three seconds left or one -- it was going to be the last play of the game in any case.

The interesting thing is that the play was going to "work" in that Toliver was going to be open. Neither he nor the DB opposite him see the bad snap, and Toliver jukes him and would have been wide open in the corner.

Reviewing this has made me much more infuriated with Gary Crowton. For a second, please disregard the fact that he sent Jefferson in with only one play instead of two. Disregard the fact that Crowton then substitutes players when there is no time to do so, and this effectively costs us a down (because if we don't sub, we have time for a quick pass play and then another play if that doesn't work).

No, I want you to focus on the fact that the two best goal-line plays that Crowton could come up with were a Jefferson run off tackle and a pass from Jefferson to Toliver. Think about the futility of Jefferson as a pure runner. Think about Jefferson's pass completion percentage. Think about the fact that Toliver drops everything Jefferson throws to him (though he seems to be able to catch Lee's passes just fine).

What confidence do any of you have that Jefferson-to-Toliver in the end zone results in a completed pass?

Posted by Duckie
Tippy Toe, Louisiana
Member since Apr 2010
24314 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:13 pm to
Thank goodness we didn't run a pass play.
Posted by TN Bhoy
San Antonio, TX
Member since Apr 2010
60589 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:14 pm to
quote:


What confidence do any of you have that Jefferson-to-Toliver in the end zone results in a completed pass?




<50% because TT has been using boards for hands the past few weeks.
Posted by GABlueDog
Marietta, GA
Member since Dec 2008
8045 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:17 pm to
quote:

At this time, it appears to me that Jefferson is quickly looking at the defense in front of him to assess whether Peterson is likely to be open in the event that the play to Toliver isn't there.


All I need to re-confirm for me that Hebert did indeed save the game for us. If I have to choose between Jefferson reading a D and throwing the ball and Hebert just wildly snapping the ball with the hope something works out...I'll take the latter. In a second.
Posted by BestDamnTigerFan
McKinney, TX
Member since Nov 2004
381 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:18 pm to
quote:

What confidence do any of you have that Jefferson-to-Toliver in the end zone results in a completed pass?


ZERO!

Posted by pdxlsufan
Beaverton, Oregon
Member since May 2008
3226 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:20 pm to
quote:

It appears to me that the play to Toliver is the primary read if the defensive alignment is favorable and that the route to Peterson is the alternate call if one of the DBs is playing back.


You know, you might have a fricking point if not for the fact that Tennessee had TWO EXTRA DEFENDERS.

Which, by the way, wouldn't matter if T-Bob hadn't snapped the ball before time expired. The ref immediately asked the replay official if the ball had been snapped before time expired. Because if time expired, Tennessee would have won and never have been penalized for having too many men.

So I ask you, just what play do you think we should have run to score against 13 defenders???
Posted by GABlueDog
Marietta, GA
Member since Dec 2008
8045 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:21 pm to
quote:

Crowton might be worse than you think


Impossible.
Posted by Witecoco
Metairie
Member since Jan 2009
1246 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:25 pm to
quote:

At this time, it appears to me that Jefferson is quickly looking at the defense in front of him to assess whether Peterson is likely to be open in the event that the play to Toliver isn't there.


This is most likely false. I have yet to see him READ a defense well enough, let alone figure out Peterson would be the guy. Even so Jefferson would have had to been blind not to see how wide open Peterson was.
Posted by DeeHorton
Member since Jan 2009
2105 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:28 pm to
2 seconds left when everyone was clueless is too early? You really dont know squat about football do you?
Posted by blackjackjackson
fourth dimension
Member since May 2008
7676 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:31 pm to
bullshite
Posted by BASCTiger
34247 posts
Member since Jul 2010
5146 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:31 pm to
quote:

I believe


I believe you are a dumbarse and need to STFU. This has been hashed out several times since the game and T-Bob hiked the ball as a lesson learned. Stop being a jackass and give credit where credit is do.
Posted by BobbyGoulet
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
3706 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:41 pm to
the fans blew it...they were too loud


BLAME THE FANS!!!!!
Posted by DudeofLSU
Member since Mar 2009
403 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:43 pm to
quote:

With six seconds left, Jefferson is giving the call to the line and Ridley. At five seconds, Jefferson is glancing at the WRs on the left and looking at the coverage. Ridley and Hurst are not set. At four seconds, Jefferson begins his cadence for the snap. At three seconds, Jefferson appears to be in the process of starting to stamp his leg to call for the ball, as a QB would in a visiting stadium, because the crowd noise would likely prevent his cadence from being heard. At this time, it appears to me that Jefferson is quickly looking at the defense in front of him to assess whether Peterson is likely to be open in the event that the play to Toliver isn't there.



Interesting, sounds like a JFK conspiracy theory..
Posted by DudeofLSU
Member since Mar 2009
403 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:43 pm to
quote:

With six seconds left, Jefferson is giving the call to the line and Ridley. At five seconds, Jefferson is glancing at the WRs on the left and looking at the coverage. Ridley and Hurst are not set. At four seconds, Jefferson begins his cadence for the snap. At three seconds, Jefferson appears to be in the process of starting to stamp his leg to call for the ball, as a QB would in a visiting stadium, because the crowd noise would likely prevent his cadence from being heard. At this time, it appears to me that Jefferson is quickly looking at the defense in front of him to assess whether Peterson is likely to be open in the event that the play to Toliver isn't there.



Interesting, sounds like a JFK conspiracy theory..
Posted by LSUzealot
Napoleon and Magazine
Member since Sep 2003
57656 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:49 pm to
dude jefferson completed 30% of his passes with an open field against 11 players...no way he was completing a pass with only 10 yards to work with against 13 players
Posted by Elleshoe
Wade’s World
Member since Jun 2004
143616 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

What confidence do any of you have that Jefferson-to-Toliver in the end zone results in a completed pass?



well considering he hadn't completed a pass for a TD in 17 quarters before that, not much confidence. The kid sucks at throwing the ball.
Posted by lsutigerfan1976
Slidell, LA
Member since Nov 2009
2358 posts
Posted on 10/5/10 at 11:59 pm to
quote:

Crowton might be worse than you think
Posted by just me
Front of the Class: Schooling You
Member since Mar 2006
34489 posts
Posted on 10/6/10 at 12:13 am to
quote:

I believe T-Bob panicked and simply snapped the ball too early. To me, Jefferson seems aware of the clock, and there was no way that his cadence was going to last three more seconds. Contrary to popular opinion, it appears that T-Bob, rather than Jefferson, is the one who lacked clock awareness.
I wouldn't say that Hebert lacked clock awareness. Snapping it premature is better than not snapping it at all.

However, I agree that Hebert snapped it too early. He snapped it just before Jefferson was going to call for the ball.
Posted by DrEdgeLSU
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2006
8186 posts
Posted on 10/6/10 at 5:10 am to
quote:

Think about the futility of Jefferson as a pure runner.


This is really all I can quibble with. Jefferson, despite his obvious lack of game awareness, leadership abilities, and will to win, has shown a capability to make an appropriate read on the read option as well as make a defender or two miss. See his run on the first play of the game for evidence of that.

THAT BEING SAID, I still wonder why we didn't see a) Ridley run the ball, like he'd been doing all game or b) some sort of misdirection at the end of the game (like the play where we fake the handoff up the middle and do a quick pitch outside and sprint to the corner of the endzone).

As has been stated many times, if we fail on that play, we still get another chance. But all in all, running the ball was a MUCH better option than passing if we want to have a chance to score.
Posted by Statestreet
Gueydan
Member since Sep 2008
12964 posts
Posted on 10/6/10 at 7:17 am to
T-bob also missed his block on that play.

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