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Question for the Attornies...Particularly IP

Posted on 5/5/10 at 8:36 pm
Posted by ForeLSU
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
41525 posts
Posted on 5/5/10 at 8:36 pm
Situation...a software company contracts to write code for a company that is specific to their business. They are basically paid hourly for their services, and the resultant code isn't useful outside of their business. None of the code existed before this project.

Nothing in the contract stipulated who owned the source code.

Now that they are parting ways, the client wants the code, but the contractor says it belongs to him. How might this work out in court?

As a software provider I've worked both ways. I've developed systems that I've licensed, but they have been specific purpose programs that I could sell to multiple clients. I considered this mine. I've also worked on a project basis to develop systems specifically for a client, I've considered that code theirs.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126962 posts
Posted on 5/5/10 at 8:53 pm to
I can't help answer your question but this is going to be interesting! I hope someone answers you.
Posted by RedStickBR
Member since Sep 2009
14577 posts
Posted on 5/5/10 at 9:25 pm to
Absent a copyright by the client, or other contractual specification, I wouldn't think the client has any rights whatsoever in the code. A copyright, as opposed to a patent, would govern the code itself. Patents extend to the idea (i.e. the product for sale or the actual software itself) while a copyright would extend to the particular form in which the idea is expressed (i.e. the actual code itself). I don't know what kind of company would be clueless enough not to apply for a copyright in this situation, but absent one, they don't have much of a claim at all.

I'd think a trade secret would accomplish the same goal as a copyright, but it still wouldn't be as strong as a copyright, and still wouldn't protect against reverse engineering, etc.

This is not legal advice.
This post was edited on 5/5/10 at 9:43 pm
Posted by ForeLSU
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
41525 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 9:57 am to
quote:

I don't know what kind of company would be clueless enough not to apply for a copyright in this situation, but absent one, they don't have much of a claim at all.


Thanks for the info...

I think the key point in this case is the transaction. The company didn't buy "software" from the contractor, they bought programming services. The resultant code is specific to this application and has no commercial market, the functional design and specification was done by the company. The contractor is attempting to lock the customer in for any modifications or changes. (which in this case is really short-sighted since the client has about another large contract coming up)

As an example, say the company makes gizmos and needs a program to track the machine operator and the serial number. Nothing exists on the commercial market, so they call Bob's Nerds and request a programmer for 40 hours to assist them in writing an application to meet the requirement. Let's say a year later, the company adds 10 machines and needs to modify the code to add machine ID to the records. However, the Nerds password protected the source file, and claims the source is their property.

I realize the client was ignorant by not specifying terms and conditions. I would think this would be similar to a magazine contracting a free-lance writer to develop content for a piece they're doing. Would the writer hold the rights to the piece, or the magazine? (again, absent any specific agreement)
Posted by HermnDaMonstaJohson
Houston
Member since Dec 2007
7 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 10:30 am to
Take a look at the "work for hire" doctrine of copyright law.
Posted by Catman88
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2004
49125 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 10:48 am to
quote:

company contracts


Well what is in the contract? Normally this is spelled out clearly.

I know when we contract a programmer we own all of his code as we are paying for his programming. It is spelled out when we hire one on. I know in most jobs I have held as well the intellecutual rights of anything I do while on the job belongs to my company as well. Now if the person is a vendor though its generally spelled out in the contract what we do have access to and in many cases we have a program and no access to their code.
Posted by LurkerIndeed
Fat Guy In A Little Coat
Member since Nov 2008
842 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 11:49 am to
Have lawyers been involved yet?
Posted by ForeLSU
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
41525 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

Have lawyers been involved yet?


no, and I doubt it will come to that. The contractor really doesn't have much of a leg to stand on...give up the code and have a chance to still work for us, or take a hike. There is no value in the code, only future work.

Posted by ForeLSU
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
41525 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

Well what is in the contract? Normally this is spelled out clearly.


it was just a simple hourly services purchase order. I came in to "audit" the system and situation after a manager became suspicious of several high priced service calls.
Posted by LurkerIndeed
Fat Guy In A Little Coat
Member since Nov 2008
842 posts
Posted on 5/6/10 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

no, and I doubt it will come to that. The contractor really doesn't have much of a leg to stand on...give up the code and have a chance to still work for us, or take a hike. There is no value in the code, only future work.


yeah, besides probably not having a legal leg to stand on with just a PO, he's shitting all over where he eats.

Software guys who are that over-protective of their code usually write crap code anyway.
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