- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Bates and Welter and examining our un(der)ranked players
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:08 pm
Okay, so to me in the recruiting game there are the players that have the big offer sheets and stars next to their names, and then the players who are under the radar, or on the periphery of the radar. In-state, guys like Vinson, Trovon Reed, Eric Reid, etc have always been on the radar, and players like Mike Davis, Justin Hunter, Justin Maclin, Zach Lee, who are highly ranked out of state prospects are always celebrated when they commit. Then you have guys like Tharold Simon, Houston Bates, Cam Fordham, Nick Jacobs, DJ Welter, Sam Gibson, etc who are evaluated in the spring or show up in the summer and earn an offer, oftentimes raising the eyebrow of people here, including myself (as in my first reaction is "why are we taking this guy now when he is not as highly thought of as some other prospect) For these guys, it takes a little further rationalization before I can say "okay, I think this is a great take by the coaches and I feel like I have some insight into what they might be thinking in regards to this player's potential."
These are the guys raised my eyebrows and who I have since rationalized as being great prospects who were simply not evaluated by Rivals, Scout, etc, or under ranked by those sites:
Mathieu - rave reviews at UT camp, offered on the spot at LSU camp. From NOLA and so under the radar is not atypical, so I get this one. Pure cover corner.
Muncie - at the surface, very good measurables and a guy who plays safety well in HS will have some range as an LB, which is what he was recruited as. Plus very positive reports from this camp about his athleticism and potential.
Nick Jacobs - Big kid with big athleticism and can play TE, DE, DT, OL, whatever. From Many, Louisiana, so of course he will not have been evaluated by website. Good take.
Sam Gibson - First reaction, why are we offering a kid from Alabama who didn't have UA or Auburn offers. Second reaction, he shows up at a camp, runs a 4.45 at 6'2 200 lbs, and shows big upside as a safety.
Tharold Simon - No more questions about him when his film came out. It spoke for itself.
Cameron Fordham - He is a good jumbo athlete, and I can't second guess coaches who see him as a center when he has 3 years to develop, gain weight and strength, before he hits the field. I prefer athletes on the OL, so I'm convinced he is a good take.
Elliot Porter - Sort of the same story as Fordham, hard to judge OL talent and if he is athletic enough to play DL then I look at that as a huge plus. Unranked when he committed, now a 4-star.
Worle - Good looking fullback, good size, will probably Redshirt and put a year between him and Allen. FB isn't very sexy but guys like Worle are needed.
NOW, the two commits that I haven't rationalized yet:
Welter - Offered way early IMO. Looks to have good speed, but small'ish, and unverified height/weight/speed. I just don't know anything about him
Bates - Too small to play DE and not fluid enough to be a LB. Also offered way early IMO.
I'm not knocking these two, I think they will contribute at some point. But at first glance they don't appear to have the upside that your typical LSU recruit has. They look like your Les Miles yearly "offer a guy with a high motor and if he never starts he'll be a great Special Teams player." Well, that's great and all, but one legacy that Saban left that I truly appreciated is that your best athletes should be on the field at all times, including on special teams. Do any knowledgeable posters here have some insight into Bates and Welter's game? Obviously I've never seen these two play in person and am operating under assumption and intuition more than true insight, so I would like to be proven wrong.
PS please refrain from "if they were good enough for the coaches, they're good enough for me" While it's a valid opinion, it does not further the conversation at all.
These are the guys raised my eyebrows and who I have since rationalized as being great prospects who were simply not evaluated by Rivals, Scout, etc, or under ranked by those sites:
Mathieu - rave reviews at UT camp, offered on the spot at LSU camp. From NOLA and so under the radar is not atypical, so I get this one. Pure cover corner.
Muncie - at the surface, very good measurables and a guy who plays safety well in HS will have some range as an LB, which is what he was recruited as. Plus very positive reports from this camp about his athleticism and potential.
Nick Jacobs - Big kid with big athleticism and can play TE, DE, DT, OL, whatever. From Many, Louisiana, so of course he will not have been evaluated by website. Good take.
Sam Gibson - First reaction, why are we offering a kid from Alabama who didn't have UA or Auburn offers. Second reaction, he shows up at a camp, runs a 4.45 at 6'2 200 lbs, and shows big upside as a safety.
Tharold Simon - No more questions about him when his film came out. It spoke for itself.
Cameron Fordham - He is a good jumbo athlete, and I can't second guess coaches who see him as a center when he has 3 years to develop, gain weight and strength, before he hits the field. I prefer athletes on the OL, so I'm convinced he is a good take.
Elliot Porter - Sort of the same story as Fordham, hard to judge OL talent and if he is athletic enough to play DL then I look at that as a huge plus. Unranked when he committed, now a 4-star.
Worle - Good looking fullback, good size, will probably Redshirt and put a year between him and Allen. FB isn't very sexy but guys like Worle are needed.
NOW, the two commits that I haven't rationalized yet:
Welter - Offered way early IMO. Looks to have good speed, but small'ish, and unverified height/weight/speed. I just don't know anything about him
Bates - Too small to play DE and not fluid enough to be a LB. Also offered way early IMO.
I'm not knocking these two, I think they will contribute at some point. But at first glance they don't appear to have the upside that your typical LSU recruit has. They look like your Les Miles yearly "offer a guy with a high motor and if he never starts he'll be a great Special Teams player." Well, that's great and all, but one legacy that Saban left that I truly appreciated is that your best athletes should be on the field at all times, including on special teams. Do any knowledgeable posters here have some insight into Bates and Welter's game? Obviously I've never seen these two play in person and am operating under assumption and intuition more than true insight, so I would like to be proven wrong.
PS please refrain from "if they were good enough for the coaches, they're good enough for me" While it's a valid opinion, it does not further the conversation at all.
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:14 pm to tigerfan4120
at the end of the day, every class has head scratchers in it. Go back and look at 02-04 classes, you'll find a butt-load of names that will make you say "why did we sign him?"
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:20 pm to tigerfan4120
nice post.
I don't think the size thing for Welter will be an issue. The system calls for quick athletic linebackers. If he gets up to 225 or so (Ian Gold) he'll be fine. As far as Bates goes he actually goes to my old High School. I have a friend who is checking in on him for me to see what he can find out. I would try but they aren't too fond of me .
I don't think the size thing for Welter will be an issue. The system calls for quick athletic linebackers. If he gets up to 225 or so (Ian Gold) he'll be fine. As far as Bates goes he actually goes to my old High School. I have a friend who is checking in on him for me to see what he can find out. I would try but they aren't too fond of me .
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:32 pm to tigerfan4120
nice post.. almost looking forward to HS season just as much as college just so we can get some more info on these players, especially the ones that came out of relative anonimity to recieving lsu offers.. bates is prob the most interesting commit thus far.. sounds like he could be a j.d. lott after reading some of the comments about him.. after seeing tyrann first hand in 7 v 7 this weekend and hearing some coaches say he's the best cover corner they've seen really gets you jacked fro the season to get here!
Posted on 7/22/09 at 7:35 pm to tigerfan4120
awesome post
DJ Welter was also offered by Bama
DJ Welter was also offered by Bama
Posted on 7/22/09 at 9:02 pm to tigerfan4120
Bates is the only guy that I really don't understand us offering but whatever. Coaches know more than me.
Posted on 7/22/09 at 9:16 pm to tigerfan4120
Good post. I'm from the Northshore and I have seen Bates play twice and he didn't blow me away other than the fact that he never quits on a play (que the high motor comments). I watched St Pauls play Mandeville and he didn't do much (Mandy's line was decent at best). Just don't know because I don't think he can gain enough weight for DL and the clips I him at LB were pretty shaky. Hope he develops and can contribute and prove he is worth it. I'm going to make a point to go to a couple of his games this year as well.
Posted on 7/22/09 at 9:20 pm to tigerfan4120
That was a pretty solid post. You should hang around more.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News