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re: I’ve lost faith in the intelligence of this country

Posted on 3/5/24 at 10:02 pm to
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41824 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 10:02 pm to
quote:

We don’t give a flip about “morality” that’s just subjective BS. we want logic. Just plain utilitarian logic. No more , no less.
It sounds like you haven't given serious thought to your stated position.

There are moral ramifications to our actions, whether you want to accept them or not, and your standard of "utilitarian logic" is arbitrarily chosen because, it seems, you don't want to face the reality of morality.

It all starts with a standard. What standard should we use to judge actions as moral or immoral, or right or wrong? That which deviates from the standard of behavior is by default considered "immoral", so that's why we have to start with the standard.

You seem to have landed on "utilitarian logic" as your chosen standard for morality, but, as I already said, I don't think you've thought that through. First of all, why "utilitarian logic" rather than "utilitarian emotion" or "utilitarian preference"? Second, why "utilitarian logic"? Why utility, and util for whom? For all? For a super majority? For a simple majority? For "the most possible"? If so, why that instead of some other amount? I think when you exam these foundational questions you'll find that you've landed on a completely arbitrary standard.

Second, I'd urge you to consider what actions have already occurred or at least have been expressed as desirable in the name of "utilitarian logic". If we begin with a stated goal of perpetuating the human race, then there are several "utilitarian logic[al" ways to accomplish that goal, including the forced euthanization of certain societal "undesirables", such as the mentally challenged or physically handicapped. That's already happening in certain parts of the world, but why not everywhere? Why not determine as a society that certain minority groups are a detriment to the thriving of that society and agree that those who do not provide a certain positive utility should be killed off? This is essentially what Adolf Hitler was going for, so why not head in that direction in the name of "utilitarian logic"?

What you can't escape is the arbitrary and thus irrational nature of your moral standard, and you cannot act consistently within it. If we took "utilitarian logic" to its logical conclusion, you could justify all sorts of atrocities without even having a rational basis for objective moral reasoning. It all boils down to your own opinion or preference.
Posted by LemmyLives
Texas
Member since Mar 2019
6555 posts
Posted on 3/6/24 at 1:50 am to
I know we're not on the most current page anymore, but I genuinely appreciate a thoughtful opinion.

There are multiple bayonets you thrust into the poster, I just don't think he's understanding he's bleeding out and about 3 seconds from losing consciousness and dying.

Well done sir.
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