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I’m tired of rural gop politicians killing school choice bills in state after state

Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:23 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69377 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:23 pm
School choice activist Corey Deangelis tracks the so called “conservative” politicians who join with dems to vote against bills that would bring school
Choice to states.

These rural gop state level politicians receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign donations from both the national and state level teacher unions. The arrangement could not be more corrupt.

Texas has struggled to pass school choice because of rural republicans, and now it looks like Alabama might struggle as well, due to you guessed it, rural repubs opposing these bills.

My understanding is that rural gop politicians oppose school choice bills because they don’t want inner city kids coming to rural areas to go to school

This is 1960s-era bullshite, sorry.

I have no doubt rural repubs in Louisiana would also kill school choice bills
Posted by Midtiger farm
Member since Nov 2014
5061 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

I have no doubt rural repubs in Louisiana would also kill school choice bills


Doubt it
Most Leg kids go to private school in LA
Plus most parishes are already open enrollment
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111617 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

My understanding is that rural gop politicians oppose school choice bills because they don’t want inner city kids coming to rural areas to go to school


Naw. They just don’t see a need to upset the apple cart for what they see as a “city problem.”
Posted by AubieinNC2009
Mountain NC
Member since Dec 2018
4994 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Naw. They just don’t see a need to upset the apple cart for what they see as a “city problem.”



As someone who went to a rural school in Alabama that didnt teach crap and faield behind other schools I would have loved for school choice.

Most of these rural schools should be shut down and combined with other schools anyways to create more opprotunities for the kids.

Only thing that keeps it going is sports.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111617 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

Most of these rural schools should be shut down and combined with other schools anyways to create more opprotunities for the kids.


But then you’d do away with a bunch of admin positions, not nearly as many kids on the basketball team and power bases shrink as they spread out.

(You are obviously right. Even in the cities.)
Posted by AubieinNC2009
Mountain NC
Member since Dec 2018
4994 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:38 pm to
quote:


But then you’d do away with a bunch of admin positions, not nearly as many kids on the basketball team and power bases shrink as they spread out.


Im sure there would be just as many admin positions - you would need more VPs, secretaries, etc to handle the increased amount of students. Though they should be cut.

Its sad that parents will forsake a better education for their child just so little Braxton can play 1A basketball and Jennifer can be a cheerleader
Posted by concrete_tiger
Member since May 2020
6071 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:39 pm to

If they don't provide bus service, I don't have much problem with open enrollment.
In fact, I used open enrollment for our first kid because our zoned school had turned to shite in between birth and kindergarten. We did this until we moved to the other zone.

If you don't think there is reality to the fear that opening "good" schools to anyone would negatively impact the "good" school, then you should probably study school ratings in areas that had dramatic demographic shifts. It's not just bussing - it's developers slamming in high-density housing near good schools. It's political re-zoning of schools. It never has positive results.

Teachers spend more time on the slowest kids, and the kids in the middle to the top suffer. Students tend to be transient, and the flow of kids in and out is constant. Teachers and admin bail. Schools fail. Private school enrollments increase.

It's a cycle I've seen over and over. Just changing schools doesn't solve a problem if the families aren't committed to their kids' success outside of school, too. These kids STILL have to go back to their shitty families in their shitty neighborhoods with shitty friends.

Posted by El Segundo Guy
SE OK
Member since Aug 2014
9654 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Most of these rural schools should be shut down and combined with other schools anyways to create more opprotunities for the kids.



The rural area I'm at in Oklahoma has way too many schools. Some tiny school districts have school systems with 56 students in grades 9-12. fricking 56 people in high school and there's a there's a bigger town with a high school 7 miles away. Look for yourself. Milburn, OK and it's 7 miles from Tishomingo and Blake Sheldon's ranch. Coleman has a total high school pop of 33 and it's 10 miles fromm Milburn. Coleman HS with their 33 total hs students has an 8:1 student-teacher ratio. Wtf. shite can that school and combine with Tishomingo or consolidate Coleman, Milburn and Wapanucka with their Wappy's 71 total HS students.

These rural Okies love to have tiny high schools in every podunk town. They love them some 8 man football.
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 2:02 pm
Posted by Lightning
Texas
Member since May 2014
2300 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

My understanding is that rural gop politicians oppose school choice bills because they don’t want inner city kids coming to rural areas to go to school


Not sure about Louisiana, but in Texas this isn't the primary motivation. Generally the concern is more that kids in rural public schools may opt of their local schools, instead taking those dollars to either homeschool or to private schools. When you've got a smaller student population to begin with, losing students will have a significant impact on rural districts' funding.

Private schools are not required to accept every child either and will turn down those with behavioral problems or expensive special education needs. The public schools cannot turn down any child though, so they could end up as a "dumping ground" for those kids, and the schools will still have to serve all their needs with less funding. The same thing could happen in urban and suburban areas of course, it just goes back to having a smaller student population to start with so the issue isn't able to be diluted across 7,000 students like it can with 75,000 students.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
753 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

This is 1960s-era bullshite, sorry.


You are quick to discount how much more oversight and gov interference can be brought about with the innocent sounding "school choice".

At what point will gov funding become the lifeblood of some of these schools, and when will bureaucrats use that leverage to go after parochial/private schools for "intolerant" views like marriage, objective truth, etc.?

The state of education is sad, but we often forget that school choice might be the tide that lowers all boats and nurturing a dependency on gov money risks letting the wolf even further into the school house (gov meal funding and numerous grants are existing hazards).
This post was edited on 3/5/24 at 6:35 pm
Posted by AubieinNC2009
Mountain NC
Member since Dec 2018
4994 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

The rural area I'm at in Oklahoma has way too many schools. Some tiny school districts have school systems with 56 students in grades 9-12. fricking 56 people in high school and there's a there's a bigger town with a high school 7 miles away.


There are some schools in North Alabama that graduate less than 10 kids each year
Posted by Tmo Sabe
GA
Member since Mar 2022
616 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 2:51 pm to
Posted by jp4lsu
Member since Sep 2016
4991 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 2:54 pm to
I witnessed this first hand in Fort Worth, TX. My state rep Geren captures a lot of FTW and out west with lots of voters that are somewhat rural.
He voted against giving parents tax money back if they have kids in private school. This got some attention on him this cycle and plus he voted to impeach Paxton. So if GOP voters are paying attention I hope tonight he is voted out.

I agree with HHTM on this. There is always talk of school choice but nothing happens. Can't put the blame on just the Dems on this.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27733 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 3:08 pm to
A lot of parishes don't really have much of a choice to choose from and the private ones probably cannot physically handle much expansion.
Posted by AUauditor
Georgia
Member since Sep 2004
1034 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 3:51 pm to
Personally, I believe in school choice, but there are a lot of problems that are going to come from it if we are not careful.

White flight destroyed schools in the 1970s/1980s. My elementary school was probably 10-20% black in small-town Alabama when we integrated and by the time I graduated, the school was 50/50 due to white flight. The school was then taken over by the state and later closed at 99% minority.

If we are not careful, what is left of good public schools are going to be destroyed.
This post was edited on 3/6/24 at 9:18 am
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111617 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

Teachers spend more time on the slowest kids


This isn’t the norm.

They spend more time on poorly behaved students. The average teacher abandons the lowest performing students.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111617 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

what is left of good public schools are going to be destroyed.


Waiting for what the problem would be.
Posted by Griffindawg
Member since Oct 2013
6180 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 4:10 pm to
I grew up in both public and private schools. I pay for my kid to go to private school for a reason. Crucify me. Idgaf.
Posted by AllDayEveryDay
Nawf Tejas
Member since Jun 2015
7081 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 5:07 pm to
As long as it's impossible to have 8 kids and claim "school choice" vouchers for ones own bank account I can get behind it.
Posted by Lightning
Texas
Member since May 2014
2300 posts
Posted on 3/5/24 at 5:11 pm to
Again I'm only familiar with school funding in Texas, which involves a convoluted formula on top of a basic allotment, so this a gross oversimplification but we'll go with the bare minimum of $6,160 per student. That amount is funded largely by local property taxes, with some state and federal dollars added in.

Using the average Texas property tax rate of 1.6% and the January 2024 median home price of $332,000, works out to an average homeowner paying $5,312 in property taxes. Again, oversimplified because I'm not going to try to figure out homestead exemptions, multifamily properties, etc.

School choice bills typically offer families a voucher of some set amount per child that a family could choose to use at a private school or for homeschooling resources. The recently proposed voucher amount in Texas was $8,000 per child. So it's already more than an average family is paying in property tax, and more than the current basic allotment per child. Not even going to get into comparisons of a homeowning family with one school-age child compared to a low income apartment family with multiple school-age children either.

In my area, that $8,000 would not cover tuition at many of our local private schools, especially the high schools. I agree this would be a great help to families who already pay for private school for their children, as they are currently "double paying" for their children's education. But for lower income families, usually living in the worst school districts, this wouldn't really move the needle if they don't have extra money to kick in to meet the tuition. Higher income families can afford to send their kids to private school with or without vouchers, so this doesn't really move the needle for them either. And I'm not necessarily opposed to a subsidy for middle class families, as they are often in the donut hole of not being "poor enough" to benefit from programs like this. I just think it's worth finding out in your state how much vouchers would actually pay and how that compares to your local private school tuition.
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