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re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano bringing the questions of the Jesuit Bergoglio..

Posted on 1/5/24 at 4:29 pm to
Posted by JJJimmyJimJames
Southern States
Member since May 2020
18496 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 4:29 pm to
THE CASE OF THE HERETIC POPE: BETWEEN ABSTRACT HYPOTHESIS AND CONCRETE REALITY
When Saint Robert Bellarmine hypothesized, as an academic study, the question of whether a Roman Pontiff could fall into heresy, he imagined a Pope who, while convinced that he continued to hold the Catholic faith, adhered materially or formally to one particular heresy, in a general context in which the social and ecclesial body remained Catholic. Bellarmine could never have imagined that an emissary of Freemasonry could go so far as to be elected pope with the purpose of demolishing the Church from within, usurping and abusing the very power of the papacy itself against the papacy. Nor could he have imagined that a hypothetical pope would surpass mere heresy and embrace all-out apostasy. No Doctor of the Church has ever contemplated the possibility of an apostate pope, or of an election falsified and manipulated by powers avowedly hostile to Christ, because such an enormity could only happen in a unique and extraordinary context such as that of the final persecution foretold by the Prophet Daniel and described by Saint Paul. Our Lord’s admonition videritis abominationem desolationis – when you shall see the abomination of desolation (Mt 24:15) – is to be understood as such precisely because of its absolute uniqueness and for the fact that everyone will see fulfilled – some with horror, some with satanic satisfaction – the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place: qui legit intelligat – let the one who reads understand (Mt 24:15).

Catholics today are scandalized by the fearful silence of Cardinals and Bishops for the same reason that citizens are shocked by the complicity of politicians, doctors, journalists, judges, and law enforcement in the betrayal of the social contract. They have come to understand that it is the entire system that is hostage to the enemy, and that it is useless to hope to obtain justice and truth from those who are in support of the global coup d’état, whether in in the civil or ecclesiastical sphere. The subversive operation is so efficient and organized that it unequivocally shows the work of a Luciferian intelligence that goes far beyond the alleged cunning of Klaus Schwab or a Rockefeller. This is why the “Bergoglio problem” cannot be solved by ordinary means: no society can survive the total corruption of the authority that governs it, and the Church is no different, when her members – and especially her Pastors – refuse to recognize the root causes of this doctrinal, moral, and spiritual corruption and limit themselves to deploring the excesses of this or that statement made by Bergoglio, without understanding that we are dealing with the homo iniquus et dolosus of Psalm 42 – the unjust and deceitful man – unjust because of the purposes he has, deceitful because of the means he uses to attain those unjust ends. To speak of formal heresy in Bergoglio’s case is like accusing of mere embezzlement the criminals who are now killing millions of people with lethal serums, poisoned air and water, harmful and artificial foods, planned famines and pestilences, induced sterility, and death – either actual physical death or civil ostracization. We are as far beyond heresy as we are beyond the normal crimes of which heads of State can be accused, with the aggravating circumstance that the culprit knows (or rather hopes) that he can save himself from condemnation because his main accusers consider him to be the Supreme Pontiff, and as such exempt from any human tribunal. Prima Sedes a nemine judicatur – The First See is judged by no one. It was precisely on this principle that those who had him elected “pope” relied, but they forgot a small detail: the intention to harm the Church by acting on behalf of an enemy power is not compatible with the acceptance of the papacy, and there is therefore a defect of consent given by the will of the one elected – confirmed by his words and deeds over the last ten years – namely, intending to act in fraudem legis, circumventing canon law and concealing his intentions from the very first appearance on the Loggia of the Vatican. I repeat: we are not dealing with a situation where a pope adheres to one specific heresy (which, moreover, Bergoglio has done repeatedly). No. The situation is rather that a man was sent into the conclave with orders to revolutionize the Church from the top, while sitting on the Chair of Peter. And again: he did not assume the papacy unreservedly and only later allow himself to be persuaded by bad counselors to act in a questionable way. No. Instead, his premeditation is evident, confirmed both by the correspondence of his actions with the orders that had already been given by the deep church under the pontificate of Benedict XVI – whether by the conspirators of the “Saint Gallen Mafia” or the “Pact of the Catacombs,” it matters little – and by the repeated meetings of the Argentine Jesuit with exponents of the globalist elite and the world’s financial potentates before the eyes of all.

THE DEFECT OF CONSENT
It is plausible that Benedict XVI’s Declaratio of 11 February 2013, due to the critical issues masterfully highlighted by Professor Enrico Maria Radaelli, led to a situation of canonical irregularity that preceded the conclave of March 2013 such as to invalidate it and thus also render null and void the election of the successor of Benedict XVI, regardless of whether the one elected was Bergoglio or a new Pius X. But even if Benedict XVI legitimately abdicated – although aware of the risk of making the election of the Argentine Jesuit materially possible – it is the malicious intention to abuse the authority and power of the papacy, assuming it by means of deception, which makes the vitium consensus real and makes Bergoglio a usurper of the Throne of Peter. The consensus and support for the Argentine Jesuit comes significantly from the ultra-progressive and pro-heretical wing that sponsored his election: all notorious members of the deep church and closely-linked to the homosexual and pedophile lobby of the deep state.

If there are those who stubbornly insist on examining the finger of those who denounce this coup d’état and not at the moon of Bergoglio’s evident coherence with it, we cannot behave as if we were resolving a question of a point of Canon Law. No. The Lord is being outraged, the Church is being humiliated, and souls are being lost because a usurper remains on the Throne, one whose acts of governance and magisterium can be judged in light of the words of Our Lord:

Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from brambles? Thus every good tree produces good fruit, and every bad tree produces bad fruit; A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. By their fruits, therefore, you will be able to discern them (Mt 7:15-20).

Posted by JJJimmyJimJames
Southern States
Member since May 2020
18496 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 4:30 pm to
You heard it correctly: A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit, which means that Bergoglio’s uninterrupted behavior – before, during, and after his election – alone counts as proof of his inherent iniquity.

Can we be morally certain, then, that the tenant of Santa Marta is a false prophet? My answer is: Yes. Are we therefore authorized in conscience to revoke our obedience to someone who, presenting himself as pope, is in reality acting like the Biblical wild boar in the Lord’s vineyard (Ps 79:14), or like the hireling, qui non est pastor, cuius non sunt oves propriæ – who is not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not – et non pertinet ad eum de ovibus – and who has no care for the sheep (Jn 10:12-13)? Yes.

What we cannot do, because we do not have the authority, is to officially declare that Jorge Mario Bergoglio is not Pope. The terrible impasse in which we find ourselves makes any human solution impossible.

Our task must not be to engage in the abstract speculations of canonists, but to resist with all our strength – and with the help of God’s Grace – the explicitly destructive action of the Jesuit Argentine, refusing with courage and determination any collaboration, even indirect collaboration, with him and his accomplices.

THE REJECTION OF THE KINGSHIP OF THE MAN-GOD
The evil of this world is intrinsically connected with the refusal to recognize that both in the State and in the Church the vicarious authority of those who govern emanates directly from the Hypostatic Union, that is, from the union of divinity and humanity in Our Lord Jesus Christ, King and High Priest. The hatred of the wicked against Christ the King was born in aeveternity, when the Holy Trinity put Lucifer to the test and he understood that he would have to worship and obey the Man-God, that he would have to recognize Him as King and Lord despite the humiliation of having assumed a human body and the infamy of the torture of the Cross. It was then that Lucifer shouted his Non serviam.

That cry of rebellion that earned the eternal damnation of part of the angelic spirits is found in the torn garments of Caiaphas, in the maneuvers of the chief priests and scribes of the people to send the promised Messiah to death, guilty of not having lent himself to the ambitions of power of the Sanhedrin. We find it in the theological delirium of Zionism, which since the Congress of Basel in 1897 has positioned itself as a sort of Vatican II of Judaism, replacing the figure of a personal Messiah with the advent of the State of Israel. That Jewish Council sanctioned the divinization of the State and its independence from the Divine will – the very premise of tyranny. The members of the modernist Sanhedrin at Vatican II acted no differently when, in the name of the secularity of the State and religious freedom, they trampled on the doctrine of the Social Kingship of Christ that had just been proclaimed by Pius XI. “Non serviam” had already echoed in the Germany of the heresiarch Luther and in the England of Henry VIII with the rejection of the authority of the Vicar of Christ, and it again resounded arrogantly in revolutionary France, with the Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man, and again with Liberalism, which takes away from the Lordship of God not only the dominion of nations, but also the primacy of the moral law over the rules of economics. We find “Non serviam” in the atheistic materialism of Communism, the false counterpoint to Liberalism that intended and fostered it in order to destroy the social fabric by means of class struggle. And today this infernal cry resounds with the horrors of abortion, euthanasia, gender transition, and genetic engineering, whose sole purpose is to erase every trace of the Divine both in man and in Creation, and to break away from the bond between man and God that is fulfilled in the Incarnation.

Until we recognize the inevitability of the victory of the Man-God as King and Lord of the Universe, and the victory of the Virgin Mother of God as Queen and Lady by Grace; until all nations and peoples bend the knee before the One Savior and Redeemer of the human race; as long as society and the Church continue to be held hostage by the enemies of Christ the King and His Most August Mother, we will not be able to hope for the end of this most painful trial, because we will not have made the necessary choice of sides that the Lord expects of us in order to make us sharers in His total and definitive triumph over Satan. Let us not deceive ourselves: those who stubbornly insist on reading the present situation with merely human eyes expose not only themselves but also the whole of humanity to the continuation and aggravation of this situation: for our battle is not against creatures made of flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, against the spirits of evil who dwell in the heavenly regions (Eph 6:12).

CONCLUSION
Let the once-Christian nations return to the Faith of their fathers. Let dissidents embrace Catholic unity. May peoples who are immersed in the darkness of superstition and idolatry be converted to the Living and True God. Let the people who were once the Chosen People recognize the true Messiah, distancing themselves from the Zionist heresy. Let individuals, especially those who are established in authority, shake themselves from their slumber and recognize with confidence that there is no power except from God, because this – and only this – is the premise for the harmony of peoples, for justice, for peace. Let faithful Catholics realize that it no longer possible to passively defer choosing which side we are on, clinging to the illusion that the current crisis fits within any precedent, remaining submissive to the cloak of authority worn by one who speaks only pleasing things but does not speak with the authority of Jesus Christ. And if the Shepherds are absent from this general awakening of consciences, let them remember the Lord’s terrible words: “If these are silent, the stones will cry out” (Lk 19:40).
Posted by JJJimmyJimJames
Southern States
Member since May 2020
18496 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

Nobody is discussing the actual content of Vigano's comments. The whole thread has a couple of people highlighting a quote and none of the other comments address the actual content of the OP's point.

Very revealing.
I think it reveals a local audience not so fond of reading or other opinions; though some do..
Posted by Zephyrius
Wharton, La.
Member since Dec 2004
7968 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

... has no care for the sheep (Jn 10:12-13)? Yes.

What we cannot do, because we do not have the authority, is to officially declare that Jorge Mario Bergoglio is not Pope. The terrible impasse in which we find ourselves makes any human solution impossible.

Our task must not be to engage in the abstract speculations of canonists, but to resist with all our strength – and with the help of God’s Grace – the explicitly destructive action of the Jesuit Argentine, refusing with courage and determination any collaboration, even indirect collaboration, with him and his accomplices.

THE REJECTION OF THE KINGSHIP OF THE MAN-GOD

The bolded is the conundrum which Vigano presents.
Posted by 31TIGERS
Mike’s habitat
Member since Dec 2004
7219 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."


It’s becoming more and more evident that those freaks are mentally deranged and their agenda is coming to light! More normal functioning people are starting to push back against that garbage, and rightfully so!

quote:

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."


Not going to happen even with the latest trendy non denominational pop up churches. Even those churches reference the Bible, as they should, and stick to it. They’ll allow those freaks as long as those freaks don’t push their agenda or mess with kids.

quote:

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."


It’s real simple with this one, it’s NOT going to happen! Private schools will tell those evil freaks to kick rocks. Our Catholic school has already made it clear they’re not going to play those lil freak tranny games regardless of what anyone says.

You start messing with people’s kids (parents that aren’t freaks themselves) and you’re bordering getting an arse whipping. And that doesn’t yet involve the dads. Just the mothers will gouge eyes out.

those freaks!
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1035 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

Our Lord’s admonition videritis abominationem desolationis – when you shall see the abomination of desolation (Mt 24:15) – is to be understood as such precisely because of its absolute uniqueness and for the fact that everyone will see fulfilled – some with horror, some with satanic satisfaction – the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place: qui legit intelligat – let the one who reads understand (Mt 24:15).

Flee to the hills

Roughly 35 years after these words were spoken by Jesus
The Roman’s placed their standards inside of the Jewish temple. This was the final straw that sparked the Jewish war against Rome that lead to the eventual destruction of the temple and the exile of the Jews from Jerusalem on pain of death.

My point is that Francis very well could be the abomination of desolation standing in the place where it should not.
He did bring a pagan idol into sanctuary.
(Tin foil hat incoming)
I think we will see the world as we know it come unraveled in short order.
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
27704 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 7:30 pm to
Do you have a link to that chart that is legible?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48518 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 7:30 pm to
Nobody seems to like this Pope!

We need a conservative Pope. Conservative politically and theologically.
Posted by RED DAWN REDUX
Member since Aug 2021
69 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 8:04 pm to
This is the chart I think you’re asking for.



I’m also in the Orthodox Church and will try and answer any questions you may have or at least direct you to wiser and better resources.
This post was edited on 1/5/24 at 8:41 pm
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
753 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 9:39 pm to
quote:

I’m also in the Orthodox Church and will try and answer any questions you may have or at least direct you to wiser and better resources.


I didn't need to look closely at your chart to know that it would include the sacking of Constantinople by an army during the Crusades. Do you believe that this was an explicit order from the Pope? Where on the chart is the request from east (Byzantine Emporer) to the west for martial aid and support? Why is the sack of Constantinople such a sticking point for the Orthodox in their view of Rome? What do the Orthodox make of Peter and his responsibilities with the keys?
Posted by GreenRockTiger
vortex to the whirlpool of despair
Member since Jun 2020
42358 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 9:51 pm to
quote:

I wish I could be Roman Catholic. They just simply won’t allow it.
what do you mean they won’t allow it?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48518 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 9:53 pm to
Your chart is published by an Orthodox Church publishing company.

Both Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches might claim to be the original Christian Church. The truth is that one did not branch off from the other, but, rather, there was one "tree trunk" which split off into a fork of two branches.

I know that you believe that the RCC split off from the Orthodox Church, but, that view is not universally accepted by scholars and its not very well supported by History.
Posted by Gideon Swashbuckler
Member since Sep 2019
5803 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 10:38 pm to
quote:

I would encourage everyone to leave the Protestant


Why?

The Bible tells us to hold true to traditions.

Do me a favor, can you find a passage from the Bible where Jesus' services, baptism, and sermons to people resemble a mass?
If you look at how Jesus conducted service, you'll see a congregation sitting, singing songs, then eating after after the preaching. Seems worth emulating if that's how Jesus conducted church. Seems pretty Baptist to me, too and not very orthodox or RC.
Christ, along with breaking bread and offering His disciples wine, washed their feet. Why did this get left out of the mass in the 3rd century? How'd they know what parts of that event were to be included or omitted? I know there's Maundy Thursday in the Holy Week, but you'd think it would've been included in the mass.

"And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words."
Matthew 6:7
What is a mass?

The RCC is an occult led by an apostate that needs further Reformation.

Get back to me when the SBC blesses gay marriage. Until then, I'll remain a Baptist.
This post was edited on 1/5/24 at 10:42 pm
Posted by RED DAWN REDUX
Member since Aug 2021
69 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 10:57 pm to
quote:

Your chart is published by an Orthodox Church publishing company.


Okay, then please provide a different one showing something different.

quote:

The truth is that one did not branch off from the other, but, rather, there was one "tree trunk" which split off into a fork of two branches


Semantics my friend; I’ll go with your analogy. The fork of Orthodoxy is the same and doesn’t have any offshoots such as RCC does with the Reformation, etc.

quote:

know that you believe that the RCC split off from the Orthodox Church, but, that view is not universally accepted by scholars and its not very well supported by History


Nothing in this world seems to be “universally accepted”…we can’t even call a woman a woman anymore nor does that matter. What matters is TRUTH.

I am totally at a loss for how to respond to your comment re: “not well supported by history”…the history of the Church since Penetcost has the most historical documentation of any corporate body in antiquity.

There were 5 bishops in Jersualem, Alexandria, Antioch, Rome and Constantinople and 1 bishop (Rome) went his own way yet you are questioning the history of the Church that did not branch off on its own.
Posted by RED DAWN REDUX
Member since Aug 2021
69 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 11:01 pm to
quote:

Why is the sack of Constantinople such a sticking point for the Orthodox in their view of Rome?


It’s a subject of the history of the bitter divorce that followed after 1054…it showed the base and darkness of the Crusader armies to invade the most beautiful city of Christendom and sack it, kill Christians and rape and pillage.

Does it have anything to do with living in Christ today…no, it’s in the past so its presence on chart is to show dichotomy of how far Rome went away from the East.
Posted by RED DAWN REDUX
Member since Aug 2021
69 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 11:06 pm to
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1035 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 11:33 pm to
You guys need to read H W Crocker “Triumph” The power and Glory of the Catholic Church.
He is brutal on his portrayal of the Orthodox Church.
Read it if you dare. Then come back here and discuss.
IMO
The RCC has succumbed to the “Disease” that was the weakness of the Eastern Church.
This post was edited on 1/5/24 at 11:34 pm
Posted by RED DAWN REDUX
Member since Aug 2021
69 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 11:41 pm to
I’ll stick to the books written by the likes of St. Peter and St. Paul and St. Luke as well as St. Iraneus, St. Augustine, St. Polycarp, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Palamas, St. Paiasios, etc. The wisdom of the Fathers surpasses the inklings from someone championing a shrinking and dying tradition.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
753 posts
Posted on 1/5/24 at 11:58 pm to
From your link to the podcast and it's transcript:

quote:

That’s a very important point in [the] Orthodox understanding of things, because it means that Peter was not the head of the Church as such. He was the leader of the Twelve, a very specific role.


So you, like us, hold Apostolic Succession to be true, valid, and unbroken to this day. At the same time, you affirm that there was a break in time (unsupported by Scripture or the early Church) that there was no Succession of Peter's role as "leader" of the twelve, and that Christ's visible Church on Earth had no visible leader as Jesus so clearly articulated when he pronounced that upon the rock of St. Peter he would build his church.

I do not understand how the Orthodox square their interpretation of numerous, ethnic churches which have far to often been tools of the state they exist within with the Lord's plan for a universal Church that features a divinely granted hierarchy.

Disregarding the Scriptural for a moment and looking at the practical, do you not recognize the Orthodox problem with authority as your various ethnic patriarchs act in such ethno-centric ways? Take your recent history with Patriarchs in Moscow. Are they acting in good faith in all matters? Are you faced with a "no true Scotsman" (or true Ortho) dilemma when trying to find which Patriarch is acting in good faith?

When the Moscow church accepts Roman Sacraments, are they correct? LINK

Is that up to you to decide? Are you adding a bit of Protestant-like moral relativism to your belief set to conform or reject things you do/do not like when they come out of a sister Church? What really binds you to other believers when your own internal divisions are so strong?
This post was edited on 1/5/24 at 11:59 pm
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1035 posts
Posted on 1/6/24 at 12:05 am to
quote:

’ll stick to the books written by the likes of St. Peter and St. Paul and St. Luke as well as St. Iraneus, St. Augustine, St. Polycarp, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Palamas, St. Paiasios, etc. The wisdom of the Fathers surpasses the inklings from someone championing a shrinking and dying tradition.


Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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