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Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:33 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
I'm not arguing culture; I'm arguing basic facts. If you can buy your heroin from Walmart, it won't have fentanyl in it. Period. Full stop.
No, culture is inseparable and intertwined into the issue at large. While I agree that being able to buy what you think you're buying, culture plays a massive role in this. This isn't Portugal or The Netherlands.
quote:
Now, for the Social Darwinists of the world, I understand (albeit don't agree with) the position of wanting externalities to be punishing. But for anyone claiming a goal of reducing overdose deaths? Legalization is the only realistic, proven path forward.
That may be true, I just don't think it's viable in an American culture in 2023 where everything is free, excessive, and consequences don't exist. In 1905, if you did nothing but feed your heroin addiction, as pure as it was, no one was there to feed you and give you fresh needles. I know you are against half measures, but half measures are all we're going to have from here on out.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:39 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
That may be true, I just don't think it's viable in an American culture in 2023 where everything is free, excessive, and consequences don't exist. In 1905, if you did nothing but feed your heroin addiction, as pure as it was, no one was there to feed you and give you fresh needles. I know you are against half measures, but half measures are all we're going to have from here on out.
While I'm vehemently opposed to the modern welfare state, I don't really see the modern prison state as a viable alternative. Not only is it anti-freedom, but it's likely not any cheaper for society.
I appreciate that full legalization is scary, but it seems as though we've tried just about every alternative, and every single one has been an abject disaster. At some point, we're going to need to come to terms with legalization being the best of a host of bad options.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:42 pm to LSUMJ
Just wait till all the housewives and college kids turn to meth due to the Adderall shortage.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:46 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
While I'm vehemently opposed to the modern welfare state, I don't really see the modern prison state as a viable alternative. Not only is it anti-freedom, but it's likely not any cheaper for society.
I appreciate that full legalization is scary, but it seems as though we've tried just about every alternative, and every single one has been an abject disaster. At some point, we're going to need to come to terms with legalization being the best of a host of bad options.
Like you said, they're all half measures disgused as solutions. The system isn't set up for your idealistic approach. If that was the case, we'd be able to beat the shite out of vagrants posted up on our front stoops shooting up with no fear of being arrested. That's never going to be the case. The system at large will need to be reformed before we could entertain the idea of legalization.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:46 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Legalize drugs; massively reduce overdose deaths.
Yep, none of that decriminalizing shite, they still buy from the black market.
You have to go full legalization.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:46 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
I appreciate that full legalization is scary
It's just not going to happen. The federal govt won't even deschedule MJ, much less full legalization. Follow the money, is my suspicion.
Full legalization is a pipe dream so offer up something more reasonable. More than likely OD deaths will continue to grow and I'm not sure where the tipping point is.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:51 pm to Tiger in Gatorland
quote:
It's just not going to happen. The federal govt won't even deschedule MJ, much less full legalization. Follow the money, is my suspicion.
No reason to be suspicious: the largest lobbyist groups behind pushes against drug legalization are alcohol companies, pharmaceutical companies, and law enforcement agencies. 100% about the money.
quote:
Full legalization is a pipe dream so offer up something more reasonable. More than likely OD deaths will continue to grow and I'm not sure where the tipping point is.
Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though, over the last half-century, we've tried damned near everything else. Failure, after failure, after failure, after failure. The War on Drugs should end because drugs won, just like alcohol won during Prohibition. We learned to live with legal alcohol; time to learn to live with legal drugs.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:52 pm to Tiger in Gatorland
quote:
It's just not going to happen. The federal govt won't even deschedule MJ, much less full legalization. Follow the money, is my suspicion.
Full legalization is a pipe dream so offer up something more reasonable. More than likely OD deaths will continue to grow and I'm not sure where the tipping point is.
If they ever decide to legalize drugs it won't be anytime soon.
It does actually work and help in some countries.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 8:56 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
It does actually work and help in some countries.
I agree. Just not this one
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:00 pm to LSUMJ
Figured it would be more than that.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:13 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
You really can’t even be a casual drug user anymore.
This is true, but from what I can tell, the numbers of accidental deaths from fentanyl contaminating other drugs isn’t crazy high, even if the percentage increase seems large. I believe that I read that cocaine deaths are up 10X, which sounds like a lot, but coke has historically been relatively safe.
The one big outlier is buying pharmaceutical opiates on the black market like OxyContin or hydrocodone. You should always expect that those pills are pressed by a cartel and have fentanyl. That’s what I plan to stress with my kids if we don’t get this shite under control by the time they are teenagers.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:34 pm to Breauxsif
quote:
College kids randomly doing bumps of coke at a house party could turn deadly with all the fentanyl out there.
I know people who still do coke and I find it insane than anyone would take that risk with all the fentanyl coming into this country right now. They all just rolls their eyes when I mention this like im the crazy one.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:35 pm to pelicanpride
They need to make the fentanyl stronger so we don't have to keep dealing with this shite.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:37 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Legalize drugs; massively reduce overdose deaths
Yeah the legalization of OxyContin massively reduced deaths.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:40 pm to Joshjrn
quote:Remove the profit motive.
Legalize drugs; massively reduce overdose deaths.
Legalize buying selling and possession. Criminalize the use.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:44 pm to thermal9221
quote:
Yeah the legalization of OxyContin massively reduced deaths.
Oxy has never been “legal”. It’s a controlled substance. Possessing it without a prescription is a felony. Further, nearly every person I’ve ever met with a heroin addiction started with prescription painkillers. Eventually, their habit outran their script, so they had to buy off the street. Once that became prohibitively expensive ($10-$20 per pill, dozens of pills per day), they move to heroin because it’s relatively cheaper and easier to get at effective dosage amounts.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:52 pm to Joshjrn
How does anyone who supports gun rights not support drug rights? To me they are basically the same. Both dangerous, but safer when legal and regulated.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:59 pm to Rust Cohle
quote:
How does anyone who supports gun rights not support drug rights? To me they are basically the same. Both dangerous, but safer when legal and regulated.
No idea, but I have no doubt someone is going to come along and cite to the Bill of Rights, completely oblivious to the fact that it was meant to be an illustrative, not exclusive list, and it’s somehow lost on them that the prohibition of alcohol required a constitutional amendment. Yet they cheerlead the bullshite “living document” creep that they claim to despise when it comes to drug prohibition.
Posted on 1/31/23 at 9:59 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I agree. Just not this one
Depends on what the desired outcome is. Natural selection is something we've tried to mitigate and the results aren't great.
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