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How does a program like Tennessee have such trouble getting a coach?
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:30 pm
This is a serious question and not a troll/flame.
Seriously, how does Tennessee have this much trouble? It's gotta be more than money. Tennessee is still a top shelf name, even though they haven't done a whole lot in football in the last ten years.
If anything, I would think that fact alone gives them a sleeping giant image, the same type that ultimately led Saban to LSU.
Maybe a few Vol fans could chime in on this...
Seriously, how does Tennessee have this much trouble? It's gotta be more than money. Tennessee is still a top shelf name, even though they haven't done a whole lot in football in the last ten years.
If anything, I would think that fact alone gives them a sleeping giant image, the same type that ultimately led Saban to LSU.
Maybe a few Vol fans could chime in on this...
15
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:32 pm to RealityTiger
It's not that great of a program frankly
support money etc yes
but the state of TN is weak big picture wise for recruiting, means you gotta go out of state
which isn't as easy as it once was
support money etc yes
but the state of TN is weak big picture wise for recruiting, means you gotta go out of state
which isn't as easy as it once was
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:32 pm to RealityTiger
Their athletic department is a dumpster fire, their team is full of thugs and character issues, and they don't have a great in state recruiting base. Sure they used to be great but I was 9 when they last won a national title so that's pretty irrelevant to me.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:33 pm to RealityTiger
do not see what is attractive about the job tbh.
nice facilities?
nice facilities?
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:33 pm to RealityTiger
The program is a dumpster fire and they are not being realistic with the coaches they have targeted.
You do not go from Kiffen/Dooley to Gruden for example.
Their realistic choices of Dykes/Malzahn have already been snatched up so not sure where they can go from here.
You do not go from Kiffen/Dooley to Gruden for example.
Their realistic choices of Dykes/Malzahn have already been snatched up so not sure where they can go from here.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:34 pm to RealityTiger
haters in 3...2...1...
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:35 pm to RealityTiger
they have relatively high expectations
they have good, not great recruiting. they can achieve great recruiting (don't get me wrong), but they gotta work on it. to their credit, they do still spend a shite ton on recruiting
their kind of like arkansas but i think they're trying for a bigger name than arkansas got. arkansas played it relatively safe and their process was pretty efficient. now UTenn is in a box
Gruden/Gundy were big names
Now Arkansas got their guy, they seem like they're scrambling, and they whiff on a beilema-esque hire in Strong. the snowball is rolling downhill with a lot of momentum and mass gathering
they have good, not great recruiting. they can achieve great recruiting (don't get me wrong), but they gotta work on it. to their credit, they do still spend a shite ton on recruiting
their kind of like arkansas but i think they're trying for a bigger name than arkansas got. arkansas played it relatively safe and their process was pretty efficient. now UTenn is in a box
Gruden/Gundy were big names
Now Arkansas got their guy, they seem like they're scrambling, and they whiff on a beilema-esque hire in Strong. the snowball is rolling downhill with a lot of momentum and mass gathering
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:35 pm to RealityTiger
What makes Tenn so much "better" than other programs like it is history. A history that current 18 year old recruits know nothing of.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:36 pm to RealityTiger
How do we really know they are having trouble?
I'm sure if they just wanted to make a hire to make a hire, it would be done by now.
People were saying the same thing just 3 days ago about Arkansas. We weren't having trouble finding a coach, our AD was just doing his due diligence.
TN will get a coach when they find the guy they want.
I'm sure if they just wanted to make a hire to make a hire, it would be done by now.
People were saying the same thing just 3 days ago about Arkansas. We weren't having trouble finding a coach, our AD was just doing his due diligence.
TN will get a coach when they find the guy they want.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:36 pm to rocket31
The state of Tennessee does not produce as many top shelf FBS football athletes as does the rest of the southeast. Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, Texas are churning out the top talent. Tennessee is littered with tiny 1A high schools that rarely produce much talent. Most of the talent comes out Memphis which might as well be 1000 miles from Knoxville.
I live up here in Tennessee. The state is not a fertile recruiting ground. It's not comparable to Saban coming to LSU over 10 years ago. Louisiana >>>>>>>> Tennessee in terms of high school talent.
I live up here in Tennessee. The state is not a fertile recruiting ground. It's not comparable to Saban coming to LSU over 10 years ago. Louisiana >>>>>>>> Tennessee in terms of high school talent.
This post was edited on 12/6/12 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:38 pm to RealityTiger
Besides the stuff mentioned already about the current team, in-stante talent, etc., the other problems are an unrealistic expectation of success and an unbelievably tough in-conference schedule.
The history of long-term success at the program has made it to where no coach can come in and have more than 3-4 years to be a winner.
That's a problem when you're guaranteed to play top 10 Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina each year, have a decent shot at playing Top 10 LSU, Alabama, and/or Texas A&M depending on the schedule rotation, and the middling teams in the conference like Vandy and Moo State are pretty good as well.
The bottom teams still suck, like Kentucky, but the conference is so top-heavy that it will be hard to do better than 7-5 anytime soon.
The history of long-term success at the program has made it to where no coach can come in and have more than 3-4 years to be a winner.
That's a problem when you're guaranteed to play top 10 Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina each year, have a decent shot at playing Top 10 LSU, Alabama, and/or Texas A&M depending on the schedule rotation, and the middling teams in the conference like Vandy and Moo State are pretty good as well.
The bottom teams still suck, like Kentucky, but the conference is so top-heavy that it will be hard to do better than 7-5 anytime soon.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:38 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
What makes Tenn so much "better" than other programs like it is history. A history that current 18 year old recruits know nothing of.
Yeah, very true. ND could sell the academics and high african american graduation rates to parents to help recruit kids (which helped tremendously in this current economy). Tennessee certainly doesnt even have that angle. They have to rely on selling the ability play in the SEC; problem with that is kids would rather win than get embarrassed.
This post was edited on 12/6/12 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Now Arkansas got their guy, they seem like they're scrambling
That's what they get for Clay travis being a douche our entire coaching search and linking us with every name tenner was desperately trying to lock up.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:41 pm to teke184
quote:
That's a problem when you're guaranteed to play top 10 Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina each year, have a decent shot at playing Top 10 LSU, Alabama, and/or Texas A&M depending on the schedule rotation, and the middling teams in the conference like Vandy and Moo State are pretty good as well.
They don't have a decent shot, they have Alabama every year, because they want it that way TSIO, tradition, 10 teams have fricked up conference schedules to cater to 4...
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:44 pm to DaleDenton
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:45 pm to stapuffmarshy
quote:
It's not that great of a program frankly
support money etc yes
but the state of TN is weak big picture wise for recruiting, means you gotta go out of state
which isn't as easy as it once was
Spot on. The Saban effect. He showed you can be, essentially, a local program and a national power at the same time. The "fence around Louisiana" has been copied around the hotbeds. It's not like Tennessee can go cherry pick players from Louisiana (from Miles?), Alabama (from Saban?), Georgia (from Richt?), Florida (from Muschamp and Jimbo?) or South Carolina (from the Ball Coach?) like they used to.
But the expectation to win big is still there. So the expectations are greater than the realistic potential success. You can go 9-3 and do a great job to get them to 9-3, but it won't be enough for the powers that be.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:50 pm to RealityTiger
I think Tennessee is more attractive than Arky. Bigger stadium, better facilities, closer to talent.
Fayetteville is far away from any real talent.
A good coach at Tennessee can easily recruit top 10 classes IMO. hell, Dooley with a mediocre recruiting staff still pulled in top 15-20 classes during the worst period in Tennessee history.
If a coach can lock down Memphis (the only major in state city) and look to recruit from GA, VA, SC, NC, and FL, then they could easily throw together a pretty good class every year. Better than Arky IMO.
Fayetteville is far away from any real talent.
A good coach at Tennessee can easily recruit top 10 classes IMO. hell, Dooley with a mediocre recruiting staff still pulled in top 15-20 classes during the worst period in Tennessee history.
If a coach can lock down Memphis (the only major in state city) and look to recruit from GA, VA, SC, NC, and FL, then they could easily throw together a pretty good class every year. Better than Arky IMO.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:53 pm to Moustache
Probably better than Arkansas....so what's the problem?
ETA: Not a flame, sincere curiosity.
ETA: Not a flame, sincere curiosity.
This post was edited on 12/6/12 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:55 pm to DC RaiseHerBack
quote:
Probably better than Arkansas....so what's the problem?
It isn't and that is their problem.
Posted on 12/6/12 at 12:55 pm to CourseyCorridor
quote:
The Saban effect. He showed you can be, essentially, a local program and a national power at the same time. The "fence around Louisiana" has been copied around the hotbeds. It's not like Tennessee can go cherry pick players from Louisiana (from Miles?), Alabama (from Saban?), Georgia (from Richt?), Florida (from Muschamp and Jimbo?) or South Carolina (from the Ball Coach?) like they used to.
But the expectation to win big is still there. So the expectations are greater than the realistic potential success. You can go 9-3 and do a great job to get them to 9-3, but it won't be enough for the powers that be.
It's not like the state of Alabama is LOADED. SUre, they have pretty damn good talent, but take a look at their recruiting class.
The state of Alabama (they have to share with Auburn) only has 13 players rated as 4 star or better per rivals.
Tennessee on the other hand has 9 and they don't really have to share it. (a good coach can overcome Vandy pretty fast IMO)
That's not that big a difference. The key is Tennessee getting back into GA, NC, and SC. That would require either UGA dropping down like in the 90s or USCe dropping back down. Honestly, i can see USCe dropping off after Spurrier leaves them.
Just another comparison: Last year the state of Alabama had 12 4 star or better recruits.
Tennessee had 10. not that big a difference between Bama and Tennessee IMO.
This post was edited on 12/6/12 at 12:57 pm
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