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Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Posted on 10/16/23 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 10/16/23 at 1:49 pm
My second Steinbeck book is in the books now, the other being East of Eden and he has quickly become one of my favorite fiction writers of all time. He has some beautiful writing and puts you in a different time and place unlike anybody. After these two books I feel like I know enough I could tell someone about how I grew up in California around the turn of the century 
I was trying to think about which one of Grapes of Wrath or East of Eden that I like better and after a few days of letting it set in (bc these books are heavy), I think I definitely like East of Eden better. I think the hopelessness of Grapes of Wrath just wore on me a little bit. East of Eden had a few more memorable characters for me and I think having almost a villain in Cathy’s character made it better. And just the end in general was better. Though Ma being the rock of the family really hit home.
I know it’s a classic but I went in to this one blind so just a couple things/questions…
*spoilers*
Is it just assumed that the family doesn’t make it? Before the final chapter there is a chapter explaining what happened to all the people in the land and the majority of them die. I can’t really think of a way they could survive unless Ma or Tom came through in the clutch. Rose of Sharon was going to help a man/possibly the family stay alive with her milk but that was going to hurt her really quick without her having any food.
I hated how Tom’s story ended. The story transitions into Ma being the central figure of the story but for a good portion of the book it was Tom and for Tom’s ending to just be “bye”, it was a little disappointing. Loved his character.
I can Google it obviously but did Rose of Sharon kill her baby? Not long before she went into labor, on the day Al got engaged, she went out into the woods and crawled up in the thickets. The chapter ended kind of oddly and I thought she was actually going to kill herself. But she had been convinced for a while that her baby wasn’t going to turn out good, so I just wasn’t sure if she just had a stillborn/miscarriage or did she intentionally do something to the baby herself.
Also, what an incredible name for the book. Perfect name.
I was trying to think about which one of Grapes of Wrath or East of Eden that I like better and after a few days of letting it set in (bc these books are heavy), I think I definitely like East of Eden better. I think the hopelessness of Grapes of Wrath just wore on me a little bit. East of Eden had a few more memorable characters for me and I think having almost a villain in Cathy’s character made it better. And just the end in general was better. Though Ma being the rock of the family really hit home.
I know it’s a classic but I went in to this one blind so just a couple things/questions…
*spoilers*
Is it just assumed that the family doesn’t make it? Before the final chapter there is a chapter explaining what happened to all the people in the land and the majority of them die. I can’t really think of a way they could survive unless Ma or Tom came through in the clutch. Rose of Sharon was going to help a man/possibly the family stay alive with her milk but that was going to hurt her really quick without her having any food.
I hated how Tom’s story ended. The story transitions into Ma being the central figure of the story but for a good portion of the book it was Tom and for Tom’s ending to just be “bye”, it was a little disappointing. Loved his character.
I can Google it obviously but did Rose of Sharon kill her baby? Not long before she went into labor, on the day Al got engaged, she went out into the woods and crawled up in the thickets. The chapter ended kind of oddly and I thought she was actually going to kill herself. But she had been convinced for a while that her baby wasn’t going to turn out good, so I just wasn’t sure if she just had a stillborn/miscarriage or did she intentionally do something to the baby herself.
Also, what an incredible name for the book. Perfect name.
4
Posted on 10/16/23 at 1:59 pm to iwyLSUiwy
“Well, maybe like Casy says, a fella ain’t got a soul of his own, but on’y a piece of a big one — an’ then—“
“Then what, Tom?”
“Then it don’ matter. Then I’ll be all aroun’ in the dark. I’ll be everywhere — wherever you look. Wherever they’s a fight so hungry people can eat, I’ll be there. Wherever they’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there. If Casy knowed, why, I’ll be in the way guys yell when they’re mad an’ — I’ll be in the way kids laugh when they’re hungry an’ they know supper’s ready. An’ when our folks eat the stuff they raise an’ live in the houses they build–why, I’ll be there. See?”
It doesn't really matter... Tom lives on as part of the collective human organism. I actually wrote my Master's Thesis (which was a piece of shite) on this theme in Steinbeck's writing of humanity as a collective organism, influenced by his work with Ed Rickett's in marine biology as well as his early socialist leanings (which he sort of abandoned later in life). Also called the "phalanx theory" in some of the literature.
“Then what, Tom?”
“Then it don’ matter. Then I’ll be all aroun’ in the dark. I’ll be everywhere — wherever you look. Wherever they’s a fight so hungry people can eat, I’ll be there. Wherever they’s a cop beatin’ up a guy, I’ll be there. If Casy knowed, why, I’ll be in the way guys yell when they’re mad an’ — I’ll be in the way kids laugh when they’re hungry an’ they know supper’s ready. An’ when our folks eat the stuff they raise an’ live in the houses they build–why, I’ll be there. See?”
It doesn't really matter... Tom lives on as part of the collective human organism. I actually wrote my Master's Thesis (which was a piece of shite) on this theme in Steinbeck's writing of humanity as a collective organism, influenced by his work with Ed Rickett's in marine biology as well as his early socialist leanings (which he sort of abandoned later in life). Also called the "phalanx theory" in some of the literature.
This post was edited on 10/16/23 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 10/16/23 at 2:36 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I have enjoyed reading all of Steinbeck’s works and particularly liked East of Eden, The Long Valley, and Tortilla Flats. However, one needs to be aware of the fact that the author was literally a card carrying communist. Ironically, his son served in Vietnam.
Posted on 10/16/23 at 3:09 pm to beachdude
quote:
I have enjoyed reading all of Steinbeck’s works and particularly liked East of Eden, The Long Valley, and Tortilla Flats. However, one needs to be aware of the fact that the author was literally a card carrying communist. Ironically, his son served in Vietnam.
He broke with the Party pretty early on and was never actually a card-carrying member of the party. There were lots of card-carrying communists back then (and I would argue they were often the "good guys" at that point in time). Later, as the USSR became obviously corrupt and China the same, communisum became a much more dubious ideology to champion.
He was friends with LBJ and supported the Vietnam war publically (though supposedly felt conflicted about it personally... but so did a lot of America).
This post was edited on 10/16/23 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 10/17/23 at 8:01 am to beachdude
quote:
I have enjoyed reading all of Steinbeck’s works
quote:
However, one needs to be aware of the fact that the author was literally a card carrying communist.
Out of curiosity why would the author's political leanings matter in relation to the enjoyment of his work?
Posted on 10/17/23 at 8:50 am to iwyLSUiwy
What a masterpiece - East of Eden. It is a mystery how it's the only book of his I've read. I keep telling myself I should read Grapes of Wrath and Of Mice and Men, keep making "must read" lists, and keep rereading the books I've already read many times. (Thanks for the spoilers warning, skipped that part)
Posted on 10/17/23 at 1:22 pm to hogfly
quote:
Steinbeck's writing of humanity as a collective organism, influenced by his work with Ed Rickett's in marine biology as well as his early socialist leanings (which he sort of abandoned later in life). Also called the "phalanx theory" in some of the literature.
quote:
It doesn't really matter... Tom lives on as part of the collective human organism.
I guess. I read that part of the book probably three times because I was so disappointed he was going off. I felt it was just he was just ok dying and just trying to give his mom some comfort. But that is a better way to look at it. At least a more positive way, which is much needed.
Posted on 11/19/23 at 11:04 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Tom gets a job on the Hoover Dam project under an assumed name. Through the grapevine (SWIDT?) he learns where the family is and sends them enough money to survive on. At the outbreak of WWII he joins the Merchant Marine and dies an honorable death when his Liberty Ship is hit by a kamikaze off Okinawa.
Rose of Sharon marries a foreman at the Boeing plant in Encino. Ma Joad lives with them until her death n 1962. Their son did an uneventful year in Nam, came home to join the LAPD and retired as a SGT. He has a place in Palmdale that's worth absurdly more than he paid for it. His kids left Cali years ago because they couldn't afford the cost of living. They're only dimly aware of their family saga. The End.
Rose of Sharon marries a foreman at the Boeing plant in Encino. Ma Joad lives with them until her death n 1962. Their son did an uneventful year in Nam, came home to join the LAPD and retired as a SGT. He has a place in Palmdale that's worth absurdly more than he paid for it. His kids left Cali years ago because they couldn't afford the cost of living. They're only dimly aware of their family saga. The End.
Posted on 11/20/23 at 9:56 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Tom gets a job on the Hoover Dam project under an assumed name. Through the grapevine (SWIDT?) he learns where the family is and sends them enough money to survive on. At the outbreak of WWII he joins the Merchant Marine and dies an honorable death when his Liberty Ship is hit by a kamikaze off Okinawa.
Rose of Sharon marries a foreman at the Boeing plant in Encino. Ma Joad lives with them until her death n 1962. Their son did an uneventful year in Nam, came home to join the LAPD and retired as a SGT. He has a place in Palmdale that's worth absurdly more than he paid for it. His kids left Cali years ago because they couldn't afford the cost of living. They're only dimly aware of their family saga. The End.
There it is. Good with me. 
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