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Message
re: Young American Family w/Traditional Values Flees To Russia
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:12 pm to Indefatigable
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:12 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
I prefer the Bill of Rights.
So do I.
But I also prefer the US Constitution. And what, if anything significantly notable, hasn't been completed infringed of those articles at this point?
0
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:19 pm to No Colors
I hear ya', guess I've just always viewed property taxes as un-American, but maybe that's just me.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:34 pm to Hognutz
Unfortunately yes. But Ahern ended up resigning about 2 years ago and a more "conservative" government took over. To be fair though. She wasn't any worse in Covid than Australia, a lot of South America, Japan, Canada and some European countries.....Russia included.
The least oppressive country during that whole thing was Sweden....and some US States like Georgia, South Dakota and later Florida
The least oppressive country during that whole thing was Sweden....and some US States like Georgia, South Dakota and later Florida
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:43 pm to Night Vision
I've lived in the States since I was 5 years old....just born there and spent summers ( winters) there with my mom's family every summer until I was 14. My Dad is an American from NOLA from a big Italian family. So no I wasn't forced to get the jab. BTW my cousins in Christchurch were never forced to get it either. Some got it, some didn't
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
There’s nothing smart or moral about moving to a country objectively poorer than America where your kids will have fewer opportunities.
A nation's economic wealth doesn't necessarily translate into opportunities for children growing up, however, a corrupted moral base most definitely translates into exceptional difficulties for children.
quote:
Also, this schtick about Russia being some place with strong families is simply not borne out by the data. Outside of the rich areas, there is horrific substance addiction, idleness, crime, etc.
Sounds a lot like the US currently, except that horrific substance addiction, idleness, and crime also exist within the rich areas of the US. (I don't recall cocaine being found in the Kremlin anytime recently - or ever.)
quote:
Why not just move to Utah?
Because Mormons shun alcohol and Russians embrace it so heartily that they make hard liquor out of POTATOES!
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:52 pm to Hognutz
When your house catches on fire, don't call the local fire department. If you are ever assaulted, don't call your police department....for starters. Probably should stay off the local roads as well.
Don't think you won't get taxed in Russia? Excuse me while I deride you and your naivete incessantly. You pay just as much if not more.....and then you may have the special tax that guys dressed in Adidas workout suits come around to collect in some areas.
You said you have a family member looking at the Republic of Georgia? Georgia as in the Capitol is Tbilisi? Wow. Is he the product of a brother /sister relationship?
Don't think you won't get taxed in Russia? Excuse me while I deride you and your naivete incessantly. You pay just as much if not more.....and then you may have the special tax that guys dressed in Adidas workout suits come around to collect in some areas.
You said you have a family member looking at the Republic of Georgia? Georgia as in the Capitol is Tbilisi? Wow. Is he the product of a brother /sister relationship?
Posted on 4/30/24 at 12:55 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
I should count the ways. I too have spent time there in Moscow during Putin. I would rather Buenos Aires under Kirchner. For starters reliable electricity and hot water....and good produce. Produce there sucks. Wanna build something, maybe buy a house? Good luck....maybe in 15 years.
Freedom of speech or criticizing the government? You only think it is "unbearable" today in the States. There....it's not that you could lose your job, you will lose your job. Corruption. As opposed to many industrialized countries the US is not that bad if you want to do business. For the most part it's minimal. In Russia, it is the standard. Have a 6 month time line.....good call me in 12 months and let's see if it is even 60 to 70% complete. Now I could get it sped up if I want to pay double...maybe. Mexican labor > Russian labor and it isn't close.
Crime....don't think they don't have their fair share of violent crime in Moscow or St Pete. They have it. People disappear all the time. The vory have the run of the place with Putin's blessing. Cops are not necessarily your friends there either . I could go on .
Almost all of what you said is bullshite. Going on vacation for a week in Moscow doesn't count.
I have friends who've built houses there and what you've said is completely untrue.
Criticizing the government. It's only going to be bad for you if you have a huge following and make waves which is exactly what happens here. The current administration will make up a charge and bring the full force of the federal government against you if you make trouble. The threw a guy in prison for making a fricking meme!
Crime is virtually non existent in Moscow. You can walk down the street anywhere in the city at 3 A.M. with no problem. Maybe encounter a drunk or two at the worst. Can you do that in downtown New Orleans, or Chicago, LA or NYC? LMAO! I don't even know what you're talking about Putin's what? You watch too much MSM.
They have good produce for the most part. It's not as bad as you've described at all.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 1:08 pm to Swamp Angel
Man, you really are stupid or just ignorant because you haven't seen it first hand. But in t h e US you have maybe one of the best environments in the world in which to progress and take advantage of the plethora of opportunities. If you find the opportunities limited, you can move within the country to a place where they are more numerous.
In Russia, unless you are a member or associated with the oligarchy your path is extremely limited. You really think there is a superior moral base? Get with it and stop deluding yourself. If you want a superior family structure go to Italy or France.....seriously. Sunday dinner in France in particular tends to be big family affairs. I never went to dinner at anyone's home in Paris , Lyon or Montpellier where Sunday dinner did not consist of 20 people at a minimum....extended family. Plus the wine is first rate
In Russia, unless you are a member or associated with the oligarchy your path is extremely limited. You really think there is a superior moral base? Get with it and stop deluding yourself. If you want a superior family structure go to Italy or France.....seriously. Sunday dinner in France in particular tends to be big family affairs. I never went to dinner at anyone's home in Paris , Lyon or Montpellier where Sunday dinner did not consist of 20 people at a minimum....extended family. Plus the wine is first rate
Posted on 4/30/24 at 1:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Outside of the rich areas, there is horrific substance addiction, idleness, crime, etc.
Are you describing American urban centers or American rural areas like Appalachia?
Posted on 4/30/24 at 1:53 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
n Russia, unless you are a member or associated with the oligarchy your path is extremely limited. You really think there is a superior moral base? Get with it and stop deluding yourself. If you want a superior family structure go to Italy or France.....seriously. Sunday dinner in France in particular tends to be big family affairs. I never went to dinner at anyone's home in Paris , Lyon or Montpellier where Sunday dinner did not consist of 20 people at a minimum....extended family. Plus the wine is first rate
LOL, you really are triggered by Russia. Do you enjoy what the West is becoming? Your description of what it's like living in Russia will be here soon enough.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 2:49 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Man, you really are stupid or just ignorant because you haven't seen it first hand.
Young Padawan, I believe you read without comprehension, and you make several assumptions and infer what was never implied.
I have been to Russia and Ukraine on several occasions, both prior to, and after, the collapse of the Soviet Union. The people are wonderful and very generous. Food, while limited in variety under Soviet rule, was fresh and the supply was ample. The hospitality was unmatched. The friendships developed have lasted for decades and across many thousands of miles.
It is not monetary wealth that provides the greatest benefit, the most joyous occasions, or the greatest satisfaction. Happiness and contentment come from what you have in your soul, not what you have in your pocket. A full heart is much more satisfying than a full bank account that causes worry and strife.
Superior family structure does not exist in greater quantity in Italy or France than it does in Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, or Belorus. I feel sad for you that your overseas experiences have been limited to France and Italy. Maybe you should try to extend yourself outside your comfort zone and check out Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, any of the Baltic states, Russia, and even Ukraine. All of them offer wonderful and different cultures and different perspectives than you get from France, Italy, Belgium, or the Netherlands. All of them tend to be a little more based in their religious beliefs (primarily Christian) as well. Also - their vodka is better than French and Italian wine.
You may be well traveled geographically, but you seem to have limited your travels to regions and climes that don't expose you to cultures much different from your own.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 3:28 pm to TS1926
The West for all of its flaws is orders of magnitude better than the best that Russia could ever hope to offer. Better standards of living that do translate into better intangible items like family life and individual rights that includes the right and freedom to vociferously criticize the government and even your perceptions of the culture. As a poor guy, if I so choose, I can buy a gun and own it in open possession. Can't do that in Russia. I have 4 th Amendment protections that can and do protect me from warrantless search. I have property rights that if I hold title to it are the envy of the world ( check it out).
In the West the sanctity of a contract is upheld. In Russia, not so much. If it is inconvenient, and you are not important you are shite out of luck. No appeals, no possibility of legitimate redress. I've seen it in action.
You are damned right I get "triggered" when people espouse things that are patently false about this country in particular. Are we perfect, certainly not, but as a society we are always striving to form " a more perfect union".
In the West the sanctity of a contract is upheld. In Russia, not so much. If it is inconvenient, and you are not important you are shite out of luck. No appeals, no possibility of legitimate redress. I've seen it in action.
You are damned right I get "triggered" when people espouse things that are patently false about this country in particular. Are we perfect, certainly not, but as a society we are always striving to form " a more perfect union".
Posted on 4/30/24 at 3:53 pm to Swamp Angel
Don't hand me that shite Master Skywalker. I'm not saying anything about Russians or Ukrainians as individuals, but I've been there and 14 years ago spent an extended period of time there working for my company and dealing with government and business types there . I can tell you that my experience and observations are spot on.
And yeah, I find the Mediterranean types to be more preferable to hang out with and break bread with than Russian types . I've spent time in all of the places you have mentioned and then some . I've had a blast with my Hungarian friends....still do, spent Christmas break in 2010 in Prague...10 days and I try to make there and Vienna when I can.
And yeah, I find the Mediterranean types to be more preferable to hang out with and break bread with than Russian types . I've spent time in all of the places you have mentioned and then some . I've had a blast with my Hungarian friends....still do, spent Christmas break in 2010 in Prague...10 days and I try to make there and Vienna when I can.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 5:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
There’s nothing smart or moral about moving to a country objectively poorer than America where your kids will have fewer opportunities.
The Russians are a wonderful people, and their culture is much less damaged than ours.
quote:
where your kids will have fewer opportunities.
Some things are more important than money.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 5:38 pm to Hognutz
Getting thrown in the gulag for saying the wrong thing about Putin outweighs the whole family values thing, for me anyway.
This post was edited on 4/30/24 at 5:39 pm
Posted on 4/30/24 at 6:30 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Don't hand me that shite Master Skywalker
Touche! I guess turnabout is fair play there.
(Dammit! I was hoping for more of a Kenobi vibe, but I reckon I fell short.) I guess I can't disagree completely with your assessment of the government and business types there. A lot of it depends on the types of business, and of course the big businessmen in Russia today are, in many cases, former party members and bigwigs who still operate on party principles. Government there, however, isn't any more corrupt than our own. It's just that there they don't attempt to conceal it and pretend that there is no intertwinement of government and business in an effort to benefit a select few in "the club". At least the government there works to protect their sovereignty and their borders.
Back to the subject though - I have no problem with a family that leaves the US to find a more suitable home in another country. They've stated their reasons for leaving, and they have left rather than stay to continually whine and complain about how unfair everything is here, and how Trump is a Nazi or Biden is a Commie. It's just a shame that all those celebrities who continually threaten (promise) to leave the country if their hated politician du jour wins election and then they never make good on that threat (promise).
Anyway, good responses and retorts to several posts. You've defended your position well and made very good points and given me a bit to think about beyond a knee-jerk reaction.
This post was edited on 4/30/24 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 4/30/24 at 8:55 pm to Swamp Angel
I try. If moving to Russia floats their boat so be it. But, I would caution people to beware when dealing with Russian officials and the Russian art of Mariskovka which for lack of a better definition is purposeful deception that forces you to expend untold amounts of energy and in our case money. I learned that if they told you 500,000.00 you were going to end up spending close to double that. If there was a form, it was in Cyrillic.....and we had people on staff that could read it and even those forms were deceptive. Made US forms seem straightforward.
If we had construction....forget it. You had to end up either paying independent help ....off the books and probably Vory but it would get done but by that time you were paying closer 800 K on a job that you had originally contracted out at 500K and the workmanship was less than optimal. Want help from local bureaucracy with permits, etc. Better have a native speaker that you can trust. It was so bad at one point we had an Israeli come in who spoke Russian who had been Mossad to help us navigate....good guy who told me afterwards that we were getting shookdown by the local officials in Moscow .
What started as a 3 month stint ended up being closer to 10.....learned to hate Vodka after it. Learned a lot about Russia though. Enough that I won't go back. My feelings were not necessarily out of line with the majority of western business guys who got sent there mostly English and Norwegian as well as American.
Yeah it's pretty safe to walk in downtown Moscow at 3 am ( never did it) but venture out to the more outer rings, it can get rough. Tucker Carlson's subway stop.... at least then yeah it was nice and maybe the reliability of the trains has improved but it was not unheard of to have a train stop working between stops...experienced that 2x. Lived in NYC area ( Northern NJ) for close to 20 years never had that happen to me....yeah it's not as dirty as Penn Station.
If we had construction....forget it. You had to end up either paying independent help ....off the books and probably Vory but it would get done but by that time you were paying closer 800 K on a job that you had originally contracted out at 500K and the workmanship was less than optimal. Want help from local bureaucracy with permits, etc. Better have a native speaker that you can trust. It was so bad at one point we had an Israeli come in who spoke Russian who had been Mossad to help us navigate....good guy who told me afterwards that we were getting shookdown by the local officials in Moscow .
What started as a 3 month stint ended up being closer to 10.....learned to hate Vodka after it. Learned a lot about Russia though. Enough that I won't go back. My feelings were not necessarily out of line with the majority of western business guys who got sent there mostly English and Norwegian as well as American.
Yeah it's pretty safe to walk in downtown Moscow at 3 am ( never did it) but venture out to the more outer rings, it can get rough. Tucker Carlson's subway stop.... at least then yeah it was nice and maybe the reliability of the trains has improved but it was not unheard of to have a train stop working between stops...experienced that 2x. Lived in NYC area ( Northern NJ) for close to 20 years never had that happen to me....yeah it's not as dirty as Penn Station.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 10:25 pm to ValhallaAwaits
quote:
Russia encourages and rewards the family unit and farm land is abundant and Americans are warmly received by ex-pat communities who are raising their families in a land not beholden to the LGBTQIABCD agenda.
Just don’t complain about Putin or anybody else in power.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 10:43 pm to redandright
Muh Putin…the ultimate bogeyman.
You mean the former soldier and KGB officer who helped bring his country out of the fall of communism and the wreckage of the Soviet Union?
You mean the man who sat down with Tucker and deftly and intelligently laid out the history of Russia and why it fights while our President can’t form a complete cogent thought?
Yep, you rail on the state in Russia, you’ll get a visit. Like how if you rail on Biden or the FBI here, you’ll get a visit.
You mean the former soldier and KGB officer who helped bring his country out of the fall of communism and the wreckage of the Soviet Union?
You mean the man who sat down with Tucker and deftly and intelligently laid out the history of Russia and why it fights while our President can’t form a complete cogent thought?
Yep, you rail on the state in Russia, you’ll get a visit. Like how if you rail on Biden or the FBI here, you’ll get a visit.
Posted on 4/30/24 at 10:54 pm to Hognutz
Buy into stupid propaganda, win stupid prizes
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