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Started By
Message
re: Pels want to move to top of draft, BI to be “aggressively” shopped per Stein
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:10 pm to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:10 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
wow it must be some sort of miracle that he lacks basic basketball skills yet hes in the NBA?
It’s ok to criticize a player but statements like this are just plain moronic.
I mean, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Right now, Zion has not developed any finesse game at all. It has worked great when he's in shape and healthy. However, when he is not in shape, he loses his athleticism and becomes defendable. Unfortunately, father time also strips us of our athleticism. So he HAS to get consistently in shape and lighter or that deterioration will only accelerate. He needs to be working on other, more repeatable tools to offset the effects of age.
That's the thing that scares the hell out of me with going all in behind Zion. You have to cater a roster to his bizarro skillset, but can't rely on him to bring that skillset to the game for an entire season.
2
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:25 pm to Pistol44
quote:If you want to argue the the team is better with BI as the #1, have at it
You keep rehashing lame stats. You could also say Pels were first place in division (ahead of Dallas) before said offense change
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:37 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Zion needs to improve for sure but let’s not act like he wasn’t dropping his fricking nutsack on LeBron AND AD in the play in game.
But but BI had two good games against the Suns three years ago!
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:38 pm to Jester
quote:
That's the thing that scares the hell out of me with going all in behind Zion. You have to cater a roster to his bizarro skillset, but can't rely on him to bring that skillset to the game for an entire season.
He was developing a middie game late in the season and I agree this season he needs to start in shape.
Bro his bizarro skill set is what makes him great. Its the bizarro guys like him that can get you the championship so I’m not going to complain about catering towards that. Bizzaro skillsets that are unguardable is exactly what you need to win.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:40 pm to shel311
quote:
If you want to argue the the team is better with BI as the #1, have at it
No, just the lameness of turning a corner post all star break due to some schematic change. Front office making little to no change with an already janky poster construction should be the real discussion.
Posted on 5/14/24 at 8:54 pm to Jester
quote:
EVERY superstar in the NBA in the 2020s takes and hits 3s, even centers
It doesn’t matter if he takes them if he can’t make them like Giannis. It doesn’t matter if he shoots 1-2 a game and makes half. Teams will give that up every time.
What he needs is a mid-range jumper, which he has, he just needs to use it way more
Posted on 5/16/24 at 12:47 am to Jester
quote:
I mean, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Right now, Zion has not developed any finesse game at all. It has worked great when he's in shape and healthy. However, when he is not in shape, he loses his athleticism and becomes defendable. Unfortunately, father time also strips us of our athleticism. So he HAS to get consistently in shape and lighter or that deterioration will only accelerate. He needs to be working on other, more repeatable tools to offset the effects of age.
That's the thing that scares the hell out of me with going all in behind Zion. You have to cater a roster to his bizarro skillset, but can't rely on him to bring that skillset to the game for an entire season.
His finesse around the rim is some of the best I've ever seen. As for building around him, what other choice does the franchise have? It sure as hell shouldn't be built around BI. Zion or bust.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 4:18 am to From Rice to Ingram
Shams has a very interesting article up about Cleveland: LINK
It looks like Bickerstaff is going to be let go in an attempt to get Mitchell to buy in for the long term in Cleveland. That's going to then cause Rich Paul to ask Cleveland to trade Garland.
There's also this bit about Jarrett Allen:
The fact that this is coming out makes it sound like the team is going to build around Mitchell and Mobley, and Allen and Garland could both get moved. I wonder if we could get both.
It looks like Bickerstaff is going to be let go in an attempt to get Mitchell to buy in for the long term in Cleveland. That's going to then cause Rich Paul to ask Cleveland to trade Garland.
There's also this bit about Jarrett Allen:
quote:
Allen played in 81 consecutive games counting the regular season and postseason. He was initially hit in the ribs in Game 1 against Orlando, and in Game 4 of that series, an elbow by Franz Wagner “pierced” a rib on Allen’s right side, according to multiple team sources. The team listed him as “questionable” to play in every game after that, which means there is a chance, though he was never close to getting back into uniform.
Few if any, members of the organization doubted the discomfort Allen has been in since the injury, but the frustration among some members of the team was that he refused an injection to try and numb the pain and play.
The fact that this is coming out makes it sound like the team is going to build around Mitchell and Mobley, and Allen and Garland could both get moved. I wonder if we could get both.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 4:28 am to GOP_Tiger
More quotes:
quote:
In trying to do everything they can to persuade Mitchell to accept a four-year, $208.5 million contract extension this summer, the Cavs need their star player to feel comfortable with the long-term direction of the franchise, which includes the coach. Multiple league sources have said, for months, that Mitchell did not have great confidence in Bickerstaff, and he was not alone. Several players questioned Bickerstaff’s strategies, game management, practice habits and accountability measures, privately and publicly, throughout the season.
quote:
Allen missed his eighth consecutive game due to what the team said was a rib bruise. Allen’s extended absence, which stretched more than two weeks, caused frustration toward him in at least some corners of the organization with teammates and staff members who felt he could have done more to try and play.
quote:
Furthermore, rival executives believe the Cavs will have to seriously evaluate the fit of Mitchell and Garland and ultimately may have to choose one or the other. Should Mitchell decide to stay long term, sources briefed on the matter say Garland’s representation, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul, would have a conversation with Cavs officials on potentially finding a new home for the one-time All-Star.
quote:
The Mitchell situation will be resolved this summer, and there is a growing sentiment around the league that the Cavaliers will be able to position themselves to receive his commitment for a lucrative contract extension that would keep him in Cleveland past his 30th birthday. Teammates have described Mitchell this season as singularly focused on winning and wanting Cleveland to aim much higher than a first-round series victory for its measure of success.
quote:
Bickerstaff’s usage of Mitchell, league sources said, was a reason Mitchell provided when declining an invitation to play for USA Basketball last summer at the FIBA World Cup — a refusal that went a long way toward his exclusion from the Olympic team.
Mitchell’s two best seasons as a pro, at least statistically, have occurred in Cleveland. The 27-year-old made his fifth consecutive All-Star team this season, averaging 26.6 points and career highs of 6.1 assists and 4.3 rebounds per game. He played for most of the second half of the campaign on a nagging bone bruise in his left knee. The injury required multiple absences and a platelet-rich plasma injection in early March and at times hobbled appearance on the court. He ended the playoffs in street clothes due to a left calf strain, missing the final two games against the Celtics.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 4:36 am to GOP_Tiger
Shamit posted a possible trade of BI, Larry, and Dyson for Garland and Allen.
I really think that is a trade that makes sense for both teams.
I really think that is a trade that makes sense for both teams.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 5:40 am to GOP_Tiger
As long as no picks are involved I would do that.
Like BI Garland’s value is a little suppressed right now.
Another concern on Garland has to be that he’s only played over 60 games twice, and has never played over 70
Like BI Garland’s value is a little suppressed right now.
Another concern on Garland has to be that he’s only played over 60 games twice, and has never played over 70
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 5:42 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 7:44 am to Soggymoss
one of two things needs to occur if so:
cj gets traded or goes to the bench.
that backcourt would be atrociously tiny like prime dame/cj.
now if it works out, it makes sense for both teams short & long term.
cj gets traded or goes to the bench.
that backcourt would be atrociously tiny like prime dame/cj.
now if it works out, it makes sense for both teams short & long term.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:04 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Shamit posted a possible trade of BI, Larry, and Dyson for Garland and Allen.
I really think that is a trade that makes sense for both teams.
In the end I think the trade will end up being for the cavs players.
There is Talk of mitchell staying and klutch wanting garland elsewhere.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 8:06 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:06 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Bro his bizarro skill set is what makes him great. Its the bizarro guys like him that can get you the championship so I’m not going to complain about catering towards that. Bizzaro skillsets that are unguardable is exactly what you need to win.
It's also why you will always struggle to build a consistent team around him until he develops his game AND his body.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:08 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
It doesn’t matter if he takes them if he can’t make them like Gianni
Read better.
quote:
What he needs is a mid-range jumper, which he has, he just needs to use it way more
That's a very generous assessment of his game.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 8:09 am to From Rice to Ingram
quote:
His finesse around the rim is some of the best I've ever seen.
You're joking, right? His effectiveness at the rim is bully ball, not finesse.
quote:
As for building around him, what other choice does the franchise have? It sure as hell shouldn't be built around BI. Zion or bust.
I'm not advocating to trade Zion. I'm saying he has to round out his game. He is still too one-dimensional to lead a deep playoff run. He has it in him, but the guy absolutely has to put in an elite level of off-season work to become a truly elite level of player.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 8:14 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 9:27 am to Jester
quote:You talking about Zion?
You're joking, right? His effectiveness at the rim is bully ball, not finesse.
No one is disagreeing that part of his game is based on physicality, but it's wildly inaccurate to say finesse has nothing to do with his success.
In terms of touch around the rim, it's Steph and Kyrie ahead of everyone else by far , and Zion is likely next. He's certainly in the argument for touch around the rim with any player other than the 2 mentioned.
In fact, when he goes up, he's not like some dudes who go straight up or are seeking out contact. He goes up strong but then there's a shite ton of finesse related to how he tries to get shots off around guys, and he's good at this because he easily has some of the best touch around the rim in the entire NBA.
This post was edited on 5/16/24 at 9:29 am
Posted on 5/16/24 at 10:05 am to Jester
quote:
It's also why you will always struggle to build a consistent team around him until he develops his game AND his body.
Lol are you just making random arguments here with posters to diss Zion?
The discussion was around building around his bizarro skillset. Nothing related to his body. Yes we know he has to be better with his body but he also played 70 games and the team/offense was better when it was centered around him. At the end of the season, he was developing his game and his body.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 11:28 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
In the end I think the trade will end up being for the cavs players.
I really like the Garland/Allen trade much better than any of the Hawks trades.
Posted on 5/16/24 at 2:39 pm to Jester
quote:
I'm not advocating to trade Zion. I'm saying he has to round out his game. He is still too one-dimensional to lead a deep playoff run. He has it in him, but the guy absolutely has to put in an elite level of off-season work to become a truly elite level of player.
Totally agree. Zion should've been putting in work on his game the last 2 or 3 years instead of chilling. He would have a pull up and more options offensively. At least we know he is finally taking this shite seriously.
My biggest question is does zion truly have the hunger to want to be one of the best ever. If he did he would be doing everything in his power to add to his arsenal.
Could you imagine if zion was adding to his repertoire every summer
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