re: 11 yo son started lifting in gym.

Wendler is where I got the calisthenics from. His HS kids all have to demonstrate a proficiency with basic bodyweight exercises before getting under a bar.

I don’t know who Jared is. I want to see what he has to say. Sounds interesting.

another guy to follow is strength debates on X, i think he is coach swole on insta.

Awesome and yea Jared is the best at what he does, crazy enough that even Louie said…”Jared, you are fricking nuts!!” lol but that SOB produces fricking freaks man

He hit the 30lb bar for 20 reps today, but can still only push the 45lb barbell for 2 reps. Will move to the 40lb bar next week for 8-10 reps until it’s pretty fluid for him for 12-14. His stabilizers are developing nice.

Yea started couple months ago, has good shite.

Jared just released a podcast and video on why power cleans suck too

He doesn’t know how to strain yet and doesn’t have confidence under heavier loads yet. Try singles and encourage explosiveness out the hole or switch to box squats

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death to power cleans.

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Damn. Any cliffs? That was like our primary focal point in high school workouts

I will have to listen to that one as well on my walk today. I listened to an episode of 'Explosive Strength' podcast on spotify and he covered this same topic for an entire episode. I need to listen again while inside(sound quality on Explosive Strength podcast isn't great for listening from phone in pocket alone, need earbuds, or less ambient noise interference) but what I remember him saying is that power cleans are too light to use in training for strength and too heavy to use for training explosiveness(speed).

I also remember him saying something to the effect that power cleans were only good for displaying the power an athlete possesses, not for training to achieve that power itself.



Like I said, I have to listen again, and I'm curious to listen to the other guys way of dealing with the same topic. I'm from the time when football coaches heavily touted the power clean as a way to train explosiveness, so I'm a bit taken back as well.

Edited: I mis-named the podcast as Explosive Mechanics, the title of Jared Bidne's podcast on Spotify is 'Explosive Strength Podcast With Jared Bidne' , but Explosive Mechanics is gym name and website url.

I never power cleaned until college. Being from not only Oklahoma, but from a town in Oklahoma that has never ever ever ever been a football powerhouse in any way.
I have to admit I was susceptible to what I call the "Texas Football Superiority Complex" when I left high school and went to play football at Southeastern Ok. St. Univ.
The coaching staff was mostly from Texas, as was the roster, and I assume this is because Durant, Ok is so close to Texas. Our strength and conditioning guy was kind of a goon. He had coached high school at Denison, TX and during his time there they managed to win a state title so in addition to his "Texas Football Superiority Complex" he had the added arrogance that is often held by those who have won championships.

He had us do power cleans, and boy was I excited at the time because I thought it was gonna bring me to a whole new level. I left high school with a 520lb squat at about 180-185lbs. I thought "Now I've got some serious coaches, and now I'll get to benefit from their obviously superior minds and methods." I was quickly disabused of my TX Football Superiority Complex.

His rationale for doing the power clean was "It's superior to the deadlift because it will make you explosive and you won't be able to put on as much weight in the power cleans and therefore it is less prone to back injuries. Heavy deadlifts always lead to back injuries."

I immediately had my doubts about the guy after hearing that. But I didn't voice them, A) I was injuriously shy, and B) I knew what he would say to me anyway, so why bother asking, to him I was a walk-on from some place in Oklahoma(that just means shitty football, not as good as Texas, which in my hometown's case, is definitely true), so I had no right to question him. I came to learn that his rationale for almost everything he did (he was the O-line coach and co-offensive coordinator as well as the S&C coach and the head coach of the women's cross country team) was based off, "We did this at Denison and we won state, so therefore I am right."

frickin' pathetic.

I achieved all my biggest lifts at the time during my first spring of college, so after being redshirted in the fall, and then working out that first spring I squatted 600lb, BP - 390lb, Incline BP - 365lb, PC - 290lb, and I weighed 195ish. I was on the football team for 2 more years and I degraded continuously. While I'll admit that a lot of that was due to me and my being kind of a frickup, the coaching staff was completely lost when it came to developing players in the weight room or the training room or the track. Looking back on it, they were so stupid, it was mostly a bunch of stupid fricking Bear Bryant "Junction Boys" horseshite (with slightly more water breaks), and I'll never forget that dude's reason for why power cleans were something worth doing over deadlifts. (I"ll fully admit I was on his side with the NOT doing deadlift, as I hated them at the time)

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I just looked this up. Holy shite! I almost call bull shite on some of those lifts. My goodness, that one kid box squats 600lbs and maybe weighs 170-180lbs at only 17 years old

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yep. there is a reason why Louie loved the guy

and plenty of people have been to the gym and witnessed it. he post all kids of videos and some of his kids decide to enter meets and destroy there too.

the gym is to the athletic training community what westside was to the powerlifting community.