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Started By
Message
re: Would drug legalization increase the frequency of overdoses?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:28 am to LSURussian
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:28 am to LSURussian
quote:
The same for you and Roger....
Cmon Russian, we're on topic. You two are going back and forth over bullshite. You know I like you but I gotta call you out here.
0
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:29 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Well then the real question is, Which came first or which id root cause? I surmise that the entitlement culture developed the need for a war on drugs.
The war on drugs came about shortly after the war on poverty. Perfect timing.
Those incarceration rates don't throw up any red flags? Maybe we have a systematic problem rather than a drug problem?
Half the nations federal prisoners are non violent drug criminals. Maybe something is systematically wrong with the way we process drug crimes and fight the war on drugs?
In Portugal, 5 years after decriminalization...drug deaths and homicides both decreased.
Here's an article from Forbes.
Ten years after decriminalization, drug abuse cut in half.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:31 am to LSURussian
quote:
Then why do you keep bringing up the idea that having so many felons locked up is destroying families?
I happen to think
There's your problem.
quote:
those families were already destroyed when the felon committed his crime. Prison is not the cause.
Do you have links?
Prisons are where people perfect their criminal life. There are few choices for employment after serving time. It's where criminal enterprises are created.
LINK
quote:
One variant of the modern American family — sadly characteristic, if often ignored — is the family struggling with the impact of an incarcerated parent. Largely as a result of harsh drug laws and mandatory minimum sentences, the nation’s prison population has almost quadrupled over the past 30 years, according to a 2010 Pew Charitable Trusts study.
quote:
Today the United States is the world’s leading jailer by far, housing more of its citizens behind bars than the top 35 European countries combined. And of the estimated 2.3 million inmates serving time, more than half are parents of children under age 18. That translates into 2.7 million affected children nationwide, or one of every 28, up from one in 125 in 1990.
Some groups have been hit much harder than others. “African-American children living in lower-income, low-education neighborhoods are seven and a half times more likely than white kids to experience the incarceration of a parent,” said Julie Poehlmann, professor of human development and family studies at the University of Wisconsin. “And by age 14, more than half of these kids with a low-education parent will have an imprisoned parent.”
Why do we imprison so many more people than any other nation in the world? Other nations have minorities, have poor. What makes ours special?
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 12:39 am
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:32 am to weagle99
Of course, the idiots who say different are fools. A junkie will spend his whole check on dope, no matter the cost.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Those incarceration rates don't throw up any red flags? Maybe we have a systematic problem rather than a drug problem?
Of course it does. And I'd really rather not get into federal prisoners right now. 1. I'm pretty sure we'd be on the same page on that one and 2. I imagine the federal prison population is dwarfed by state and local prisons.
I'd also imagine that they're in federal prison for transporting large amounts of drugs across state lines. In which case I'm fine with them being there. I'd also imagine that, aside from bank robbers, the vast majority of federal prisoners are non violent.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:36 am to RogerTheShrubber
I strongly recommend anyone looking for further reading/research in the drug policy realm to go to:
Criminal Justice Policy Foundation
I interned there over the past several months and researched all aspects of drug policy.
Eric Sterling (the President) has been working on undoing the policies on the WOD. Ironically enough, he was legislative counsel for the Judiciary Committee from 79-89, where he authored many aspects of the same policies he is looking to doing away with.
I am now outside of the Beltway (praise Allah) and am taking the message of a peaceful end to the unwinnable WOD to businessmen throughout the local community. We will be successful; it's just a matter of time and enlightening the ignorant. The next step is to show the profitability of harm-reduction policies to the local community leaders.
Criminal Justice Policy Foundation
I interned there over the past several months and researched all aspects of drug policy.
Eric Sterling (the President) has been working on undoing the policies on the WOD. Ironically enough, he was legislative counsel for the Judiciary Committee from 79-89, where he authored many aspects of the same policies he is looking to doing away with.
I am now outside of the Beltway (praise Allah) and am taking the message of a peaceful end to the unwinnable WOD to businessmen throughout the local community. We will be successful; it's just a matter of time and enlightening the ignorant. The next step is to show the profitability of harm-reduction policies to the local community leaders.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:40 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:Interesting. are there any other hard drugs that consistently take people out like heroin?
Most heroin junkies OD because they get a does that is pure heroin - when they are used to getting doses that are cut double, tripe, quadruple fold. That's right - most junkie OD's don't involve a junkie "pushing the edge" - its a junkie taking what he thinks is his average does but it winds up its a lot more than average. There's very little in all of existence more regular and predictable than a heroin junkie.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:42 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Of course it does. And I'd really rather not get into federal prisoners right now. 1. I'm pretty sure we'd be on the same page on that one and 2. I imagine the federal prison population is dwarfed by state and local prisons.
I'd also imagine that they're in federal prison for transporting large amounts of drugs across state lines. In which case I'm fine with them being there. I'd also imagine that, aside from bank robbers, the vast majority of federal prisoners are non violent.
But, what makes our population so special that we incarcerate at such an incredible rate compared to any other nation in the world?
My point, and I don't know how it got past Russian, is the problem is with our laws and policies, not with our people. Other nations have minorities. Other nations have poor but no nation comes close to touching how many people we incarcerate.
We're fricking ourselves on two fronts. Spending an incredible amount of money fighting a losing battle against drugs, then supporting people for a lifetime because they are either incarcerated, or their dependents are incarcerated.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:43 am to Zed
quote:
are there any other hard drugs that consistently take people out like heroin?
Coke.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:44 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
I strongly recommend anyone looking for further reading/research in the drug policy realm to go to:
Criminal Justice Policy Foundation
Definitely...
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:46 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:People with preexisting heart conditions mostly? I know speedballs take a lot of people out, but I always figured it was the heroin that did it.
Coke.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:48 am to Zed
quote:
People with preexisting heart conditions mostly? I know speedballs take a lot of people out, but I always figured it was the heroin that did it.
I've only known one person with a hardcore coke problem. Most folks were partiers and limited it to specific events. Never got the infatuation with coke.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:49 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
But, what makes our population so special that we incarcerate at such an incredible rate compared to any other nation in the world?
I guess because we can afford it, well we can't but you know what I mean. And our population can afford more drugs.
And we have a much larger minority population than any other country. That may have something to do with it. The blacks got screwed when the war on drugs/poverty began. They'll be lucky to ever get out.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
It should also interest people to know that profit is being made from a prison system that has been turning into a private venture. I'm certain these companies that benefit from a large prison population support the drug war.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:52 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I guess because we can afford it
Can we afford it? We're 17 trillion in debt.
And you think there is no cost to society for this practice? What about the families the government supports because their income providers are locked up.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:53 am to Zed
quote:
People with preexisting heart conditions mostly
Sometimes, but the purity of coke varies greatly.
People shoot up coke as well as heroin.
True story:
I have an old friend that almost lost an arm the other day. His mom called me and said he was in the hospital due to an infection. He had been shooting up. The coke was junk, and he almost died. He told the doctor he just snorted H, as he did not want to shoot up bc of "fear". The doctor proceeded to tell him that was dumbest thing he ever heard. He said that coke is just as much a killer as H.
FWIW, Chart on page 2
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:54 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Never got the infatuation with coke.
This guy did.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:55 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
And we have a much larger minority population than any other country.
Maybe, but some nations have high population of black folk and the US still leads the world in imprison rates.
Hell, our white incarceration rate would be one of the highest in the world. It would still be 4 times the average European nation.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 12:56 am
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:56 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:It's probably not worth the money for such a short high, unless you've got money to burn. I'm never touching heroin.
I've only known one person with a hardcore coke problem. Most folks were partiers and limited it to specific events. Never got the infatuation with coke.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 12:57 am to Zed
quote:
It's probably not worth the money for such a short high, unless you've got money to burn. I'm never touching heroin.
When I was in rehab (the last time) I heard several people say they switched from coke to meth because meth has a high that lasts 5-6 times as long as coke.
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