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re: Would drug legalization increase the frequency of overdoses?

Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:50 pm to
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

I don't think so. I was just countering his point that the war on drugs caused an increase in violent crime.



From the link you provided, murders were higher in the early to mid 90's. If you want to credit the war on drugs for the decreasing violence, don't you think we would have seen something a little sooner?
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

I didn't. The article did.


I know. And I apologize for the way I responded. I shouldn't have done that.


What caused the end of the crack epidemic?
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

To do as much as possible to abate drug abuse



It's about jobs. Government jobs. Correctional jobs. Increasing and keeping departments funded.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:53 pm to
quote:

From the link you provided, murders were higher in the early to mid 90's. If you want to credit the war on drugs for the decreasing violence, don't you think we would have seen something a little sooner?




I don't know. For all I know the decrease in violent crime is due to RoevWade.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134965 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:54 pm to
quote:

It has decreased since 1991
Was crack made legal since 1991?
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
38440 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:58 pm to
quote:

Why do you think it is that people make drugs from cleaning products?

Ammonia is _________
Marijuana is _________



No idea. So they can do a before and after meth photo shoot?

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 8:59 pm to
quote:


What caused the end of the crack epidemic?


quote:

Alfred Blumstein, a criminologist at Carnegie Mellon University, agrees with Fox. “There are four major factors in the drop in crime,” he says. “No. 1 has been getting guns out of the hands of kids, No. 2 has been the shrinking of the crack markets and their institutionalization. Third is the robustness of the economy. There are jobs for kids now who might otherwise be attracted to dealing.” In last place, Blumstein says, is the criminal justice response, or as he puts it, “incapacitation related to the growth of incarceration.”


quote:

Blumstein believes the connection between crack markets and the popularity of guns among youth drove the crime epidemic of the late ’80s and early ’90s. “All of the growth in homicide between 1985 and ’91 was among young men with handguns,” says Blumstein. “The homicide rate in that group doubled — while it fell 20 percent among people over 30 … Regular kids started getting guns and using them, partially for protection, partially because it was trendy. It diffused out from the nuclei of dealers and worked its way into the broader community.” Just as beepers started out as icons of drug-dealing cool and spread to other teens, so did guns, with far worse results.



LINK

It appears our population changed. Milder drugs such as weed became cool, and crack lost popularity.


Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:00 pm to
quote:


Just from personal experience and common sense. I'm stuck on mobile so I'm not scouring the web to find a link. If you would like to refute it go ahead.



There is absolutely no proof of you said, I'm just letting you know that.

We have more evidence that supports the opposite of what you're saying.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:01 pm to
quote:

It appears our population changed.


So.... RoevWade??
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:02 pm to
quote:


So.... RoevWade??



Some sociologists credit RvW as a factor in the declining violent crime rate, yes. Not all.

Basically we're getting older.


Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:02 pm to
Here is my problem with legalizing it:

We have lost personal accountability for our mistakes in life. Nothing is anybody's fault anymore.

If your a disgusting fat arse its not your fault its Fast Food Restaurants fault.

If you burn your mouth with hot coffee its McDonald's fault for not providing a warning label even though its called hot coffee.

You slept through school, never applied yourself, read on a 3rd grade level...but hey its not your fault you can't get a decent job, its society's fault.

You got addicted to drugs...its not your fault its a disease...lets use tax money to pay for rehab centers, welfare, medicaid, and free housing for you just because you screwed up your life.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

You got addicted to drugs...its not your fault its a disease...lets use tax money to pay for rehab centers, welfare, medicaid, and free housing for you just because you screwed up your life.


You're doing that right now.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:07 pm to
So you're not gonna refute it?
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:10 pm to
quote:

You're doing that right now.


True, that's why the war on drugs isn't working.

Legalizing it but refusing to make people accountable for their mistakes is not going to improve the situation.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:12 pm to
quote:

Legalizing it but refusing to make people accountable for their mistakes is not going to improve the situation.



Probably support every addict with the money saved from the C/J system.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:15 pm to
quote:

Probably support every addict with the money saved from the C/J system.



That's a pipe dream.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
134965 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:15 pm to
It seems your major argument is if we legalize drugs then we will save money because we won't be prosecuting drug crimes.
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

So you're not gonna refute it?


Is that any different than not proving it?

There is a bit of an ego issue if you think it's the others guys responsibility to refute something that you refuse to prove.

Sometimes it would be nice to have these types of conversations withe a certain amount of knowledge that is already on the table and accepted. This is something that should already be on the table. Legalization has not shown to raise the percentage of addicts. A meh example of this is the fact the Netherlands has much better numbers than the US in nearly every category on this matter, even far lower homicide rates.

Since I'm a fair person, not just a stat sharer, I have to consider things like the social climate in the US vs the Netherlands. I can say that homicide rates are much lower in a place with lax drug laws, but the conditions for crime are different in the US.
This post was edited on 2/2/14 at 9:22 pm
Posted by Sleeping Tiger
Member since Sep 2013
8488 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:20 pm to
quote:


Legalizing it but refusing to make people accountable for their mistakes is not going to improve the situation.


So your issue is with society, not the question of legalization.
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 2/2/14 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

Probably support every addict with the money saved from the C/J system.


No you won't.

Again, most inmates serving time have lengthy criminal histories. Most would still be in jail for just a different crime.

Its not a drug problem its a propensity to break the law problem. Its a want everything for nothing problem. Its a not willing to work hard to be successful problem.

Legalizing drugs will not correct that
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