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goatmilker
LSU Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
49038 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

John Deere would have made them obsolete.


Right.

If I'm one of the 2% that's been in many cases abusing, killing and torturing my slaves I'm not releasing a single one of a million slightly pissed off people into freedom. Are you?


SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
37841 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

Didn’t suggest that but on the whole communism was the greater threat.


Only because Communism survived the war

Aggressive Fascism isn’t great either.

Any totalitarian government is bad.
This post was edited on 12/21 at 9:48 am


Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
73529 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

People say this but we still love cheap labor.



My point is - slaves weren't all that cheap, even in the 1850s.

quote:

Using slaves for agriculture would have not been profitable after a while but factories?


We're not talking about getting illegal immigrants to come work for pennies on the dollar. We're talking about supporting an entire community, of whom, maybe 60% are working. And not just while you have them on duty - 24/7/365. You had to provide (however rudimentary) medical and dental care, food, clothing, shelter, the whole megillah, for your entire slave population. Now, a lot of these small holdings, they didn't have that with 3 to 5 slaves. But, the larger holdings had to have a significant portion of the slave labor dedicated to maintaining the slave labor.

quote:

And I guess my point is that SOME KIND of abolitionist movement would have had to happen.


Certainly, but it didn't have to be a violent one. Slavery could have been ended (IMHO) in a more slow motion, methodical way. It would have been little solace to those who would have endured slavery for potentially decades later, but it would have been better for the nation if the transition had been handled that way, with periods of time for transition and adjustment.


TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
40070 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

I'm not releasing a single one of a million slightly pissed off people into freedom. Are you?


not into my back yard, no

they would have to be deported


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04
SCLibertarian
South Carolina Fan
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
19476 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
The Second Great Awakening should be the answer. It formed the spiritual and philosophical basis for the concept of the Social Gospel, which itself was one of the largest motivations behind the Progressive movement of the late 19th and early 20th century. And it is with this movement where we see the imposition of the income tax, the creation of the Federal Reserve, the direct election of Senators and the idea of public health. The Second Great Awakening is the disease that slowly killed the Republic.


SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
37841 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

We're not talking about getting illegal immigrants to come work for pennies on the dollar. We're talking about supporting an entire community, of whom, maybe 60% are working. And not just while you have them on duty - 24/7/365. You had to provide (however rudimentary) medical and dental care, food, clothing, shelter, the whole megillah, for your entire slave population. Now, a lot of these small holdings, they didn't have that with 3 to 5 slaves. But, the larger holdings had to have a significant portion of the slave labor dedicated to maintaining the slave labor.


You still pay for all that with non-slave labor

And probably a little more.

Slave labor is cheaper if you’re efficient. It’s morally wrong.

How long are you going to keep your employees around if you’re not paying them enough to eat?
This post was edited on 12/21 at 10:19 am


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dawgfan24348
Georgia Fan
Cumming, Georgia
Member since Oct 2011
38038 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

there would have been no Abolitionist movement

Oh yeah how awful we had people trying to end slavery


Zach
LSU Fan
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
97952 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
The welfare state was an outgrowth of giving the vote to women. The Civil War is over. The women's vote is still destroying the country.


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64
RockyMtnTigerWDE
Auburn Fan
Co-Captain PosiBarners
Member since Oct 2010
81456 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
The dismantling of the US Constitution by the democrat party and ultimately the destruction of the United States.

All of the kids and grand kids they claim to be trying to help, and all they are doing is giving them a dangerous and uncertain future.

Way to go Dems. The thirst for money and power have ruined your integrity and sense of good.

This will be the worst historical disaster for our country.


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24
RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
19835 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

or Second Great Awakening

Damn hoss, try to read up on history some time
quote:

the disaster of the 18th Amendment and the legacy of organized crime left in its wake.

Ever heard of 5 points in Manhattan? Boss Tweed? 5 points had the highest murder rate in the world in the 1790s. Organized crime long had a foothold in our country before the 2nd great awakening. The awakening made us into the US that we are, not into another Russianesque oligarchy
quote:

there would have been no Abolitionist movement

And yet every other nation on the planet had abolitionist movements, without a 2nd great awakening. How the eff did they manage that?
quote:

there would likely have been no War on Drugs, and the legacy of mass incarceration which arose from IT.

So we hang around as a 3rd world country then? Cuz that's what its like in So. & Cen. America with its rampant drug culture
This post was edited on 12/21 at 11:02 am


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43
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
181926 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
This can't be a serious question...


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22
antibarner
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2009
18695 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
At the end of WW2 in Europe maybe we listen to George Patton. He was right, you know. The Red Army was exhausted their supply lines overextended and they were ripe to get hit.

We strike in a surprise attack, rearming the Wehrmacht who would have fought like tigers to kick the Russians out of Germany , and push those Red bastards as far east as we could.

Let Japan stew, they are beaten anyway, use the nukes we have to destroy massed Red Army tank formations and crush them. Shove them all the way back into Russia and maybe do what Hitler could not do, take Moscow.

They can't mass against us, because one bomb takes out their tank formations. History changes.
This post was edited on 12/21 at 1:06 pm


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20
AggieHank86
Texas A&M Fan
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
17887 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

quote:

there would have been no Abolitionist movement
Oh yeah how awful we had people trying to end slavery
Think deeper.

Mechanization had reached a point that the end was near for slavery. It was simply going to be cheaper to use mechanical equipment rather than huge masses of slave labor.

Whether we want to admit this or not, Southerners were rational people. They would’ve made the rational choice.

The problem with the abolition movement is that it forced the issue a few decades sooner than the issue would have resolved itself naturally.

Again, I blame the Second Great Awakening for the abolitionist movement.


Redbone
LSU Fan
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
14729 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

The election of Barack Obama.

8 years of the enemy within holding the most powerful position in the nation.

Record numbers on welfare and food stamps.
Arab Spring.
Fast and Furious
Warmonger.
Set race relations back 50 years.
Corruption on a scale never before seen.
Islam allowed to get a foothold in America.
Slowest economic growth in our history.

and more.


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03
antibarner
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2009
18695 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
There is merit in what you say. Slavery had reached the end anyway. But the hotheads forced the issue Lincoln decided to be Big Napoleon, and look at what we got. 600, 000 dead, untold numbers maimed and displaced, not to mention scars that have yet to totally heal .


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13
SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
37841 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
Again, people always say this but we still use sweat shops.

The reason we ship manufacturing jobs overseas is because they can pay their workers so little, and we artificially prop up wages in the US.

Slave labor is cheaper tha. Paid labor. Just because farms didn’t need man power anymorw doesn’t mean factories didn’t, mines didn’t etc...

Ironically, the north would have likely benefited more from slaves going forward.
This post was edited on 12/21 at 1:09 pm


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10
More&Les
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2012
12486 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
Worst Historical Disaster


The Democrat Party


This

Also, the psuedo intellectual argument that slavery would have just eventually went away peacefully is total fricking bull shite.

It required a civil war because the evil fricking racist Democrats bastards refused to give up their greed machine without major bloodshed


GeorgeWest
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2013
7686 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
The movement to abolish slavery began in the 18th century with the Quakers. It is older than the Second Great Awakening.

the SGA brought Christian churches to every corner of rural America. I guess if you don't like that, you should dislike the SGA.
This post was edited on 12/21 at 6:27 pm


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zatetic
Missouri Fan
Member since Nov 2015
4233 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

Only because Communism survived the war


Communism killed tens of millions before the world war II even started. Nice try.


SammyTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Feb 2009
37841 posts

re: Worst Historical Disaster — Civil War or Second Great Awakening?
quote:

Communism killed tens of millions before the world war II even started. Nice try.


The point is Hitler killed millions as well at basically the same pace of not a significantly faster one.

There isn’t a right answer between totalitarian communism and totalitarian Fascism.



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