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Started By
Message
re: Womens soccer doesn't understand why pay isn't equal
Posted on 7/8/19 at 8:34 am to TOKEN
Posted on 7/8/19 at 8:34 am to TOKEN
quote:
“Why don’t more people care about women’s soccer”
Here's a better question.
Why don't WOMEN care more about women's soccer?
For all their whining about men in this, the reality is, while there are more women in the stadium for a women's game than for a men's game, the bulk of their attendees are STILL men!
Basically, the reason women get paid less is because women's soccer brings in less money and the reason women's soccer brings in less money is.........ironically.........because of women!!!
0
Posted on 7/8/19 at 8:39 am to ApexTiger
All this aside, they AGREED to the current CBA in 2017. Now, roughly two years later, the compensation terms they AGREED to aren't "good enough".
It's virtue signaling to the highest order because realistically, they (individually) don't have much negotiating leverage outside of public sentiment...which they are trying to gain.
As a group, the US men's team hasn't exactly set the world on fire with their results (far from it). Particularly compared to the women's team. However, the men's players can and (many) do earn significantly more playing for various pro teams worldwide than they can/do playing for the USMNT.
The women don't have such leverage. Even with their "paltry" salaries, the women earn more playing for the national team than they generally can playing in professional leagues. The reason is there is simply no real market for women's soccer outside of the world cup every 4 years. It's why they agreed to the "bad" CBA. Walking away from the negotiations would have meant walking away from their best earning opportunity...even if the pay is not what they feel they "deserve".
Conversely, the USNT is not the best earning opportunity for the men's players. They don't HAVE to accept the proposed salaries because they can generally make a higher salary playing professionally
Even at the current rate of pay (which, again, the women AGREED to) playing for the USWNT is their best job offer (in terms of pay). The "protest", litigation, virtue signalling is them simply trying to get paid even MORE than their market value because in reality they are like Richard Gere (Officer and a Gentleman), they have nowhere else to go to get paid as much.
It's virtue signaling to the highest order because realistically, they (individually) don't have much negotiating leverage outside of public sentiment...which they are trying to gain.
As a group, the US men's team hasn't exactly set the world on fire with their results (far from it). Particularly compared to the women's team. However, the men's players can and (many) do earn significantly more playing for various pro teams worldwide than they can/do playing for the USMNT.
The women don't have such leverage. Even with their "paltry" salaries, the women earn more playing for the national team than they generally can playing in professional leagues. The reason is there is simply no real market for women's soccer outside of the world cup every 4 years. It's why they agreed to the "bad" CBA. Walking away from the negotiations would have meant walking away from their best earning opportunity...even if the pay is not what they feel they "deserve".
Conversely, the USNT is not the best earning opportunity for the men's players. They don't HAVE to accept the proposed salaries because they can generally make a higher salary playing professionally
Even at the current rate of pay (which, again, the women AGREED to) playing for the USWNT is their best job offer (in terms of pay). The "protest", litigation, virtue signalling is them simply trying to get paid even MORE than their market value because in reality they are like Richard Gere (Officer and a Gentleman), they have nowhere else to go to get paid as much.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 8:48 am to GeeOH
I was just thinking that some endorsements could help close the gap and bring attention at the same time. I occasionally see commercials for women's sports in general but I'm talking about deals with individual soccer players, like with men. CR7 has one. Nike should step up and start doing this with the women.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 9:13 am to UnitedFruitCompany
quote:
Because of Title IX and the unbelievable (relative to other coutries) investment this country has provided in female specific athletics.
I was explaining this very thing to my wife/daughter (who were asking why the USNMT was not even close to as successful).
Title IX means a loot once you get to college, but think about youth sports.
Boys are playing football, baseball (t-ball) and basketball (as well as soccer) at a VERY young age. Girls' options are limited for sports basically until then get to middle/high school - with soccer being one of the few options at an early age (usually, gymnastics is the other girls youth sport). Thus, for girls, you don't see the dilution of athletic talent that happens with boys sports.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 9:15 am to ApexTiger
quote:
Update:world cup earnings
Men generate 6 billion, players get 9%
Women 131 million,players get 13% payout on that revenue
This is what it all boils down to. There is no hidden agenda to keep money from the women that these liberal, SJW’s so desperately want to be true. If there is any argument to be made about pay, it’s the 9% and 13% shares both teams are getting. That seems way too low when you consider they’re the ones selling the tickets.
However the bottom line is just because the men’s revenue is over 46 times more than the women’s revenue doesn’t mean that the women are entitled to a single penny of it. They didn’t earn it. The men did.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 9:52 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
What's next? The WNBA demanding equal pay to the NBA?
They already did
Posted on 7/8/19 at 9:58 am to ApexTiger
quote:
"We can't put on a better show" "We're done talking about markets, it needs to change" CNN interviewing Michelle Akers... She doesn't understand the pay gap either...(on the field) When it comes to sports, men are superior athletes, thus pay will be different... What the heck is wrong with women who cant accept the reality men are better athletes and thus more enjoyable to watch? If women could compete for a starting position and do what men do, then we could talk about equal pay... But using soccer as a platform is silly.. If we're talking non sports, that's a conversation to have.... Pro sports? "Come on man"....(sleepy Joe)
Normally this would be the gospel....but I doubt the US Mens Soccer team is remotely as popular as the women's at the moment. It has nothing at all to do with the athletic ability it is all about winning and the Women can win while the men can't. Soccer is boring as baseball during a rain delay at best....who gives a shite if it is a bunch of women trotting around or men? For some reason many Americans think the sport matters and thus there are marketing opportunities...and the women are hands down better at winning than the men....
EDIT - Did some quick googling and the womens team generates about $1 million more revenue a year than the men's team because they win instead of getting eliminated early on...so the womens team and the womens product is more valuable. No doubt if the men ever win a meaningful game again this will change but as things stand now employees responsible for driving more revenue should earn more than those who do not regardless of their plumbing....
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:03 am
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:07 am to ApexTiger
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:09 am to ApexTiger
quote:
Also noteworthy a 15 year old boys team beat the women team 5-2...
I believe it was the FC Dallas U-15 squad.
I wish that the players from that U-15 team would start protesting to be paid the same or more as the women's national team since they beat them.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:10 am to germandawg
quote:Um, that's not how you value something at all.
EDIT - Did some quick googling and the womens team generates about $1 million more revenue a year than the men's team because they win instead of getting eliminated early on...so the womens team and the womens product is more valuable.
They generated $1M more than a team that washed out and didn't even go to the WC.
Value isn't just backward looking.
quote:They don't even have to win a meaningful game. They just have to actually make the tourney and they earn more.
No doubt if the men ever win a meaningful game again this will change
Moreover, when the current CBA was negotiated, they were earning more!
Over say, a 10 year period, the "value" of the Men's team vs the women's team isn't even fricking close.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:12 am to ApexTiger
forbes had a pretty good article on this a while back. The last World Cup - Men's revenue was $4 Billion.. Women's was $73 million. Women actually make a larger percentage of the overall revenue.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:13 am to Antonio Moss
Well logical people arent in charge. I would pay police and fireman more than any other civil service position. Also why we have shitty cops.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:16 am to ApexTiger
If the US Women's Team actually does generate more revenue than the men's team then they should get paid more.
But the numbers have to be legit. Not like the Softball World Series vs CWS BS that gets propped up on the Rant every year.
But the numbers have to be legit. Not like the Softball World Series vs CWS BS that gets propped up on the Rant every year.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:19 am to ApexTiger
quote:
When it comes to sports, men are superior athletes, thus pay will be different...
It really comes down to money, not athleticism, though athleticism plays into that most of the time. But I could see scenarios where certain women's sports would draw more viewers, endorsements, etc which lead to more money, like gymnastics.
This post was edited on 7/8/19 at 10:22 am
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:19 am to ShortyRob
That's why this argument is hilarious. They aren't comparing an equally successful team on the men's side. It's an apples to oranges comparison that clearly is meant to mislead. So what if they win more games? That is an irrelevant talking point because the men would pull in multiples higher revenue and TV ratings if they had equal success.
Also their lawsuit is a complaint on the bonus structure. The woman get a higher base with less incentives and the men are the opposite, so they're comparing their potential pay for the men to win versus the woman winning. It's never happened before and of course the men would deserve more than the woman for winning a world cup. There's so much stupid in this conversation.
Also their lawsuit is a complaint on the bonus structure. The woman get a higher base with less incentives and the men are the opposite, so they're comparing their potential pay for the men to win versus the woman winning. It's never happened before and of course the men would deserve more than the woman for winning a world cup. There's so much stupid in this conversation.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:29 am to wutangfinancial
quote:
That's why this argument is hilarious. They aren't comparing an equally successful team on the men's side. It's an apples to oranges comparison that clearly is meant to mislead. So what if they win more games? That is an irrelevant talking point because the men would pull in multiples higher revenue and TV ratings if they had equal success.
And, of course, it's a completely disingenuous argument because there isn't a single woman alive making the "pay the women more" argument who ACTUALLY care about their comparative revenues.
If the men go to the next WC and win even 1 game, they'll make more than the women do in 20 years in terms of revenue and you can bet your arse that this won't suddenly precipitate a "pay the men 20x what women make" argument.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:32 am to germandawg
The men get paid completely on a bonus structure based on how many games they play, who they play, whether they win/lose/tie, and based on winnings from tournament purses.
Women's World Cup purse was $30 million, with $4 million to the winner. Men's World Cup purse was $400 million with $38 million going to the winning team. Maybe the women's national team should take up their grievance with FIFA for paying 10x as much in prize money for men's tournaments.
Also, the men's team played a nationally televised final for the Gold Cup last night. When was the last time a women's tournament was nationally televised other than the World Cup every 4 years?
Women's World Cup purse was $30 million, with $4 million to the winner. Men's World Cup purse was $400 million with $38 million going to the winning team. Maybe the women's national team should take up their grievance with FIFA for paying 10x as much in prize money for men's tournaments.
Also, the men's team played a nationally televised final for the Gold Cup last night. When was the last time a women's tournament was nationally televised other than the World Cup every 4 years?
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:32 am to wutangfinancial
quote:I should add that another part of this problem is the basic premise is that the women and the men are "doing the same job".
Also their lawsuit is a complaint on the bonus structure. The woman get a higher base with less incentives and the men are the opposite, so they're comparing their potential pay for the men to win versus the woman winning. It's never happened before and of course the men would deserve more than the woman for winning a world cup. There's so much stupid in this conversation.
They aren't.
Just like I'm not doing the same job as Mike Trout is when I stroll to the plate in my local rec league, the women aren't doing the same job as the men in soccer.
The moment our women could play the worst men's WC qualifying team and not lose by 30, they can talk to me about it.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:32 am to ApexTiger
quote:
"We can't put on a better show" "We're done talking about markets, it needs to change"
This is the exact argument put forth by symphony orchestras in cities like Shreveport when they can't sell enough tickets to pay decent salaries so they demand subsidies.
Posted on 7/8/19 at 10:53 am to ApexTiger
Women's soccer. 
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