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Woman has COVID listed on death certificate—family says she never tested +
Posted on 8/15/20 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 8/15/20 at 4:50 pm
LINK
The family of a deceased South Carolina grandmother is demanding answers after they say officials listed "COVID-19 complications" on the death certificate — despite the grandmother never testing positive for the virus.
Kimberly Klosterman told WIS-TV that her 79-year-old grandmother Joan Hill died on July 31 after suffering from dementia for years. Hill had moved into the home of her daughter, Klosterman's mom, in January, and was receiving in-home hospice care, according to WIS.
Upon receiving Hill's death certificate, her family was shocked — it listed both Alzheimer's disease and COVID-19 complications as the cause of death.
But that is not correct, the family told WIS. That's because Hill never tested positive for coronavirus, nor did she ever exhibit symptoms of the virus.
"That was wrong. She had never been tested before or after death, so I wasn't sure how that could even be listed on her death certificate," Klosterman explained. "She was breathing fine; that was the last thing to go for her. Her lung function was good up until the very end, so there were zero symptoms of COVID whatsoever."
Richland County Coroner Gary Watts, who was called to respond to Hill's death, said there need to be answers as to why COVID-19 was listed on the death certificate.
"When you (WIS) contacted me was the first time we were made aware that there was anything listed as far as COVID," Watts said. "When we took the call originally, it was a patient with Alzheimer's — nothing was mentioned about COVID-19 at that time."
"It's certainly something that needs to be answered as to why that happened, and who made that decision, and why that decision was made if there was no indication at the time of death," he added. "I think the family deserves an answer. I think all of us deserve an answer."
Watts told WIS that a hospice physician was responsible for listing Hill's cause of death.
The South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control declined to say whether Hill's death was included in the state's COVID-19 death count, citing privacy laws.
When Klosterman reached out to the DHEC for answers, the agency told her to contact Amedisys, the hospice care organization that cared for her grandmother. Amedisys claimed their employees "acted in accordance with the Coroner's Office and followed clinical protocols."
Klosterman told WIS, "I am very aware that COVID is real. I've known people that have had it, that have been hospitalized for it, that have passed away from it."
"But to have a report come back and say that that's what my grandmother passed away from when she was never even tested, had no symptoms, it's just devastating," she told WIS.
The family of a deceased South Carolina grandmother is demanding answers after they say officials listed "COVID-19 complications" on the death certificate — despite the grandmother never testing positive for the virus.
Kimberly Klosterman told WIS-TV that her 79-year-old grandmother Joan Hill died on July 31 after suffering from dementia for years. Hill had moved into the home of her daughter, Klosterman's mom, in January, and was receiving in-home hospice care, according to WIS.
Upon receiving Hill's death certificate, her family was shocked — it listed both Alzheimer's disease and COVID-19 complications as the cause of death.
But that is not correct, the family told WIS. That's because Hill never tested positive for coronavirus, nor did she ever exhibit symptoms of the virus.
"That was wrong. She had never been tested before or after death, so I wasn't sure how that could even be listed on her death certificate," Klosterman explained. "She was breathing fine; that was the last thing to go for her. Her lung function was good up until the very end, so there were zero symptoms of COVID whatsoever."
Richland County Coroner Gary Watts, who was called to respond to Hill's death, said there need to be answers as to why COVID-19 was listed on the death certificate.
"When you (WIS) contacted me was the first time we were made aware that there was anything listed as far as COVID," Watts said. "When we took the call originally, it was a patient with Alzheimer's — nothing was mentioned about COVID-19 at that time."
"It's certainly something that needs to be answered as to why that happened, and who made that decision, and why that decision was made if there was no indication at the time of death," he added. "I think the family deserves an answer. I think all of us deserve an answer."
Watts told WIS that a hospice physician was responsible for listing Hill's cause of death.
The South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control declined to say whether Hill's death was included in the state's COVID-19 death count, citing privacy laws.
When Klosterman reached out to the DHEC for answers, the agency told her to contact Amedisys, the hospice care organization that cared for her grandmother. Amedisys claimed their employees "acted in accordance with the Coroner's Office and followed clinical protocols."
Klosterman told WIS, "I am very aware that COVID is real. I've known people that have had it, that have been hospitalized for it, that have passed away from it."
"But to have a report come back and say that that's what my grandmother passed away from when she was never even tested, had no symptoms, it's just devastating," she told WIS.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 4:58 pm to Crimson Wraith
I went to my doctor last week for a routine checkup, and we got to talking about covid.
He said he has two patients recently pass away, and both had covid listed as the cause of death on the death certificate. Neither of them had ever tested positive.
He also thinks that this whole thing is politically driven and will end right after the election.
He said he has two patients recently pass away, and both had covid listed as the cause of death on the death certificate. Neither of them had ever tested positive.
He also thinks that this whole thing is politically driven and will end right after the election.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 4:59 pm to Crimson Wraith
That’s what happens when hospitals get $39,000 for each Covid death. You create bad incentives, you get bad behavior.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 4:59 pm to Crimson Wraith
This is pretty common, I'm surprised more people don't question the death #'s like the case numbers
Posted on 8/15/20 at 5:06 pm to Crimson Wraith
Gotta pump those number up...
Would be interesting to know the amount of fraud perpetrated by claiming Covid positive to get the additional funding.
Would be interesting to know the amount of fraud perpetrated by claiming Covid positive to get the additional funding.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 5:13 pm to Lsut81
quote:
The South Carolina Department of Health and Environmental Control declined to say whether Hill's death was included in the state's COVID-19 death count
Translation: It was.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 5:16 pm to jatilen
quote:
Translation: It was.
Of course it was. That's how "COVID-19" got on the death record in the first place. It's not like the South Carolina Department of Health is going to harvest her death as a "COVID death" and then not count it as a COVID death. What would be the point?
Posted on 8/15/20 at 5:21 pm to Crimson Wraith
My grandmother died of something unrelated, but they say she tested positive. The doctors specifically said that she was showing no ill effects from Covid-19, but they were unable to treat an ecoli infection. As you can probably guess, Covid was listed. Total sham.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:03 pm to Bud Davis
quote:
My grandmother died of something unrelated, but they say she tested positive. The doctors specifically said that she was showing no ill effects from Covid-19, but they were unable to treat an ecoli infection. As you can probably guess, Covid was listed. Total sham.
And there's more to come. They're ginning up the regulations and political will to start counting deaths resulting from lockdown measures as "COVID deaths."
In other words, you off yourself the day after testing NEGATIVE for the virus because your business went into the ditch after the government decided it was "nonessential," and, there you go - another COVID death.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:05 pm to tduecen
quote:
This is pretty common, I'm surprised more people don't question the death #'s like the case numbers
Two words.
Complicit media.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:08 pm to funnystuff
quote:
That’s what happens when hospitals get $39,000 for each Covid death. You create bad incentives, you get bad behavior.
Where are you getting that number? Hospitals get an add on payment, but it’s DRG based on the primary diagnosis.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:22 pm to Auburn80
The main factors that determine the amount of money each parish or county receives from the feds is positive cases. The other is total population.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:27 pm to Auburn80
Serious question... why is “ extra money “ for Covid death/diagnosis even a thing ?
That’s a blatantly obvious incentive for fraud/abuse
That’s a blatantly obvious incentive for fraud/abuse
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:34 pm to tduecen
Well I have tried calling out the stupid sticky thread in this forum that reports the lies daily.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:34 pm to funnystuff
quote:
That’s what happens when hospitals get $39,000 for each Covid death.
1. It is absolutely untrue that hospitals get any money, to nothing of $39K, for COVID deaths.
2. On average COVID inpatient way more than $39K to treat and indeed almost every hospital loses money on it's COVID patients. Which is why the most profit-focused hospitals do everything they can to avoid them.
3. This didn't happen at a hospital.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:37 pm to Crimson Wraith
Death Certificate has since been revised to list the sole cause of death as Orange Man Bad.
Posted on 8/15/20 at 7:54 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
1. It is absolutely untrue that hospitals get any money, to nothing of $39K, for COVID deaths.
2. On average COVID inpatient way more than $39K to treat and indeed almost every hospital loses money on it's COVID patients. Which is why the most profit-focused hospitals do everything they can to avoid them.
3. This didn't happen at a hospital.
So the $175 billion in the first Cares act designated for hospitals didn't go to hospitals?
Anybody know how many hospitalizations there have been for COVID?
This post was edited on 8/15/20 at 7:55 pm
Posted on 8/15/20 at 8:00 pm to Lawyered
quote:
Serious question... why is “ extra money “ for Covid death/diagnosis even a thing ?
Money for death is not a thing. However, there are specific ICD-10 diagnosis codes for COVID that can be added to the patient's medical record when appropriate. Those codes, like any other code, communicate to the care providers important information about how to treat the patient. If the patient has COVID surely you'd want the doctors & nurses treating them to know, right?
Hospitals and providers are paid on the basis of the complexity of the care they provide. Or more accurately, complexity of the care/resource consumption as captured in the ICD-10 codes in the medical records. Every code adds some level of complexity to the case and in turn, adds to the reimbursement for that case. If a patient has dehydration in the record, the hospital gets paid a tiny bit more than for an equivalent patient who lacks that code. If they have diabetes, even if they came in for something unrelated, the case is more complicated so they'd capture the code and get paid more. COVID significantly adds to the complexity of case and the resources required to treat. So we'd get paid more on COVID patient with pneumonia than we would for someone without that diagnosis.
That all said, COVID patients are dogs financially a good chunk of them just sit on vents for weeks at a time and clog up your ICU. All of them require you to do a bunch of over the top infectious control activities. And they're disproportionately Medicare/Medicaid as opposed to commercially insured. From a financial perspective, no one wants these patients.
quote:
That’s a blatantly obvious incentive for fraud/abuse
What you are describing is called upcoding and it a relatively common form of fraud but it's really hard to systematically pull off at a hospital because too many people would need to be involved, I'm talking dozens and dozens. Further, the groups you're ripping off are Payers and they audit us all the time.
Finally, if hospitals wanted to get paid off from COVID phenomenon they do waaay more unnecessary chest CTs or something like that. Upcoding is super easy to catch, but ordering unnecessary tests is the tried and true method.
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