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WildTchoupitoulas
Oscillating Fan
Member since Jan 2010
30883 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
Because in a country of 330 million people, there are 7.6 million people to the left of the second standard deviation - on the bad side.


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idlewatcher
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Jan 2012
36561 posts
 Online 

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

At some point I would be embarrassed to used EBT or anything similar to it.


Unfortunately many subscribe to:

Free money/housing/phone/subsidized life>>>>embarrassment of using EBT

IMO, their payments should be staggered. Full benefits from Day 1-Day 365, 70% payments 2nd year, 40% (or less) third year. After the 3rd year, you're off the dole.


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20
BFIV
Virginia
Member since Apr 2012
2937 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

It’s because the entitlement restrictions give no incentive to work or do better.



This. It's more profitable to draw welfare benefits than it is to hold a job and earn wages.


baobabtiger
LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
2867 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
Humans will deal with a lot in lieu of change.


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mightyMick
North Carolina Fan
Member since Aug 2018
81 posts
 Online 

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
40 acres and a mule = Big flatscreen TV and an iphone


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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
18098 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

BTW, she lives in a state where there are not many blacks, so this is not an issue confined to race.


Definitely not exclusive to any race, but also not equally distributed among the races.

If one is examining the issue in real terms, that fact can't possibly be ignored.


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21
deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
44938 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
The simple way to fix it is to stop giving extra benefits after the first 2 kids, and create a progressive entitlement program much like progressive taxation.

I.e the more you earn then benefits gradually are reduced at a rate slower than your rise in income in order to create incentive to move up in the workforce


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volod
Southern Fan
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
3490 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

Now to education: due a community with no value on education and little involvement in schools, you end up with shite schools with terrible teachers and administrators who embezzle funds. The few students who do care have 0 options because they must attend the school in their district and cannot afford private school. So they get a crap education and even with good grades in HS usually fail out of college due to not being prepared. 

So now all of these kids reach adulthood with little to no education. Parents kick them out at 18 as they no longer bring them any extra benefits. These kids have little more than minimum wage value in the workforce. They cannot afford to support themselves on MW so they get Govt housing, food stamps, Obamacare, etc. probably valued at 20-35k a year total. Plus earning 20k at a MW job. 

Say they do good at work. Get offered a raise to 15 an hour. Now they make too much to keep their benefits and the total income value per year actually goes down. So they choose to continue making MW as they’d need a salary of around 50k to do better than their current situation. 

So the cycle repeats itself.


I agree 100%.

The irony is that this is the same argument used to create a higher minimum wage laws.

My issue with that would be that you'd effectively reduce the workforce since Employers would want better employees.

You are spot on about the educational gap. The bold is something everyone on here needs to realize.

This post was edited on 12/6 at 10:34 am


Dick Leverage
Georgia Fan
In The HizHouse
Member since Nov 2013
7646 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
You don’t know nuthin about freedom until everything is free. Gives me time to just stroll my hood all day. Get to do what I want to do.


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10
615tider
Alabama Fan
sidewalk in TN
Member since Oct 2012
2656 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

what about other variables.


Some things happen in life that are beyond our control. There are people on welfare who ran into unforeseen problems and genuinely needed help. There are others who have no intention of pushing through, working more hours or another job.


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USA
Member since 2001
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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
30789 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

I feel like I'm missing a fundamental variable in our society. What is it?


ShortyRob and others have pretty much nailed it on "why" but I've always rounded it down to "when it's not just the only thing you know, but it's the only thing that everyone you know knows...".

Whereas many of us posting here were raised with the understanding that we were expected to graduate high school then go on to some other form of higher education (vo-tech, college, etc) in order to get a good-paying job to provide for ourselves and our family, people in these situations are raised with the understanding of how to get as much money from the system as possible. The reward from a job well done and parlaying that into a career is literally a foreign concept to many of them.

anc provided a good idea of how the math works but he missed at least one thing: SSI. "Crazy checks" (money for your kid having a "learning" or "behavorial disability" but in actuality they are just undisciplined) nationally average $615 per month per child. For a single mother with three kids, that's $1,845 extra per month or an extra $22,140 per year ON TOP of the ~$9k cash (or near cash) that mother would get (as well as free housing and utilities). Add in a ballpark of $500/month for rent and utilities (I am low-balling on purpose) and now you have someone who is in essence making ~$40k a year.

My mother worked for La social services for over 30 years, 10 spent in food stamps and 20+ spent in child relocation. The stories she has told me...

As others have said, a great detriment to the programs is how they are geared to penalize responsible behavior. That single mother mentioned above gets less money if she gets a job and/or gets married.

What needs to happen is a complete re-imagining not just the programs themselves but how their metrics (there are groups that are tasked with trying to find ways to ENCOURAGE people to get into these programs). Unfortunately anytime anyone on the Left (especially the CBC) hears that someone wants to tinker with an entitlement, they go into knee-jerk defensive mode and shut down any attempt at conversation.

Until Dems are willing to see these things as issues (instead of creating more issues like they have with trying to de-stigmatize being on public assistance) then this will continue.


RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
156445 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

Now to education: due a community with no value on education and little involvement in schools, you end up with shite schools with terrible teachers and administrators who embezzle funds. The few students who do care have 0 options because they must attend the school in their district and cannot afford private school. So they get a crap education and even with good grades in HS usually fail out of college due to not being prepared.


You can learn a trade with a HS diploma or GED. The educational barrier is pretty damn low.

The issue us parental involvement. I would argue both the war on drugs and war on poverty are to blame. Mass incarceration for drug crimes is destroying the lower classes

Poverty in and of itself isn't that great abarrier. The problem is we have a whole different level of dysfunctionality among our poor than we used to.


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40
mauser
LSU Fan
Bunkie
Member since Nov 2008
8480 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
Don't underestimate the degree of squalor in which many people are willing to live if it means not having to go to work.


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volod
Southern Fan
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
3490 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

provided a good idea of how the math works but he missed at least one thing: SSI. "Crazy checks" (money for your kid having a "learning" or "behavorial disability" but in actuality they are just undisciplined) nationally average $615 per month per child. For a single mother with three kids, that's $1,845 extra per month or an extra $22,140 per year ON TOP of the ~$9k cash (or near cash) that mother would get (as well as free housing and utilities). Add in a ballpark of $500/month for rent and utilities (I am low-balling on purpose) and now you have someone who is in essence making ~$40k 


That's literally the salary range of average college graduates. The higher range of welfare is 60K, which is close to what engineers, CPA, RN, and other top tier jobs make.

I'm jealous. It basically makes the hard work the middle class does almost irrelevant.


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756
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2004
13642 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
free money and then work cash jobs-

That is why the system grows so fast.


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Chief One Word
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2018
138 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?


Ingrained


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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
91931 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

I feel like I'm missing a fundamental variable in our society.


Quite a bit, actually.

1. Welfare in NYC combining federal, state and local programs of all types for a single unemployed mother of 1 = $15 per hour in a 40 hour work week. If you are dumb as shite with no skills what job can you get for better wages than welfare?

2. Children tend to follow their parents lead. If your mom is on welfare and your grandma is on welfare and your great grandma (who is 58 years old) is on welfare then you see the lifestyle as normal.

3. When Michigan put time limits on welfare back in the day there was a tremendous drop in the WF rolls. But then people started to quit the jobs they had taken. So, Mich did a study. Why did you quit a decent job? Most frequent answer: 'The boss kept telling me what to do.' This is not a joke. They could not understand the concept of being told what to do.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 1:40 pm


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TigerTattle
LSU Fan
Out of Town
Member since Sep 2007
6314 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
quote:

I would be embarrassed to used EBT or anything similar


There's your answer. A stigma used to be attached to accepting charity/welfare. Now people are proud of it -- not all, and mostly the younger set. They know how to game the system and laugh about it. They also know exactly how much to earn in a job to qualify for the EITC, and when to quit so the earnings don't cut the amount.


vtdad
Virginia Tech Fan
WV side of Bluefield,WV
Member since Dec 2009
945 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
Too lazy to work for their money.


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jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
9120 posts

re: Why would anyone want to stay on welfare?
Friends with a welfare worker. I assume people on welfare build up some kind of report with individuals in the office, maybe they keep individuals assigned to them. idk.

But I was talking to her the other day and she felt complimented with a long time welfare "client" of hers came in with her 7 year old daughter. At the end of the session, the young girl asked her mom if my friend could be her "worker" when she got older. The mom smiled proudly and said "of course".

They are bred to think this way. Its permanent.


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