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Why are leftist so committed to continuing the killing and bloodshed in the Ukraine
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:46 am
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:46 am
Didn't they used to be the Anti-war party?
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:47 am to RoosterCogburn585
Because somehow they think it makes Trump look bad.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:48 am to RoosterCogburn585
Why don’t y’all realize that Putin is the only one who can save us now?
Posted on 10/25/22 at 9:54 am to RoosterCogburn585
I’m not a leftist, but let’s get real.
Putin invaded a sovereign nation 3 times. Georgia once and Ukraine twice. Ukraine has invaded no one.
The blood guilt is on Putin.
Now you can oppose helping Ukraine. You can even cheer for Putin’s Russia. I’ll even join you in declaring Ukraine not blameless. But let’s not tell lies to each other.
Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine is the cause of and continuation of the bloodshed.
Putin invaded a sovereign nation 3 times. Georgia once and Ukraine twice. Ukraine has invaded no one.
The blood guilt is on Putin.
Now you can oppose helping Ukraine. You can even cheer for Putin’s Russia. I’ll even join you in declaring Ukraine not blameless. But let’s not tell lies to each other.
Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine is the cause of and continuation of the bloodshed.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:16 am to Gaspergou202
You are so right, but that goes against the narrative on this board that Putin is here to save the day. So prepare to be downvoted into oblivion.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:43 am to sta4ever
quote:
but that goes against the narrative on this board that Putin is here to save the day.
I haven't participated in many of the Ukraine threads, so maybe I'm wrong about this - but the narrative isn't that Putin is saving the day. Most that are against our actions in Ukraine aren't cheering for Putin. What they believe (and I agree) is that the US has done everything possible to foment the conflict, and now that it's hot is doing everything possible to keep it going. That's the criticism, well, that and all the money we're laundering/wasting in Ukraine.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:47 am to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
Didn't they used to be the Anti-war party?
Never were...
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:47 am to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
Didn't they used to be the Anti-war party?
At first glance, I thought that was odd too. But then I realized they enjoy murdering babies, giving an untested vaccine to healthy people that is killing them, and it hit me that they've always enjoyed killing. They disguise it as caring for the environment since people pollute and are over populated really they just enjoy killing weaker people.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:47 am to RoosterCogburn585
They love forcing other ppl. See covid, lockdowns, etc. as long as it's the govt doing and not them. They're bloodthirsty sociopaths that use the govt to force others to their beliefs.
If the govt came out tmrw and handed them a rifle to the frontlines in the Donbas, they'd be the first to change their tune.
If the govt came out tmrw and handed them a rifle to the frontlines in the Donbas, they'd be the first to change their tune.
This post was edited on 10/25/22 at 10:49 am
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:50 am to sta4ever
quote:
You are so right, but that goes against the narrative on this board that Putin is here to save the day. So prepare to be downvoted into oblivion.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:52 am to Gaspergou202
But why is that the US' problem?
So much of the energy that EU needs comes from Russia. Seems like those guys would be the one's trying to shore up the opposition.
And Trump even tried to warn the EU about their energy independence by going so Green and the reliance that would cause. Those chickens are coming home to roost and it's not even really gotten cold yet.
Biden cares about Ukraine for financial reasons. Any clear objective person would have discovered that by now. Trump made it crystal clear and got impeached for doing so.
So much of the energy that EU needs comes from Russia. Seems like those guys would be the one's trying to shore up the opposition.
And Trump even tried to warn the EU about their energy independence by going so Green and the reliance that would cause. Those chickens are coming home to roost and it's not even really gotten cold yet.
Biden cares about Ukraine for financial reasons. Any clear objective person would have discovered that by now. Trump made it crystal clear and got impeached for doing so.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 10:53 am to RoosterCogburn585
The empire doesn't want to lose a nation.
Posted on 10/25/22 at 11:17 am to Gaspergou202
quote:
I’m not a leftist, but let’s get real.
Putin invaded a sovereign nation 3 times. Georgia once and Ukraine twice. Ukraine has invaded no one.
...
Now you can oppose helping Ukraine. You can even cheer for Putin’s Russia. I’ll even join you in declaring Ukraine not blameless. But let’s not tell lies to each other.
This is an oversimplistic explanation. We have this fixation on some commonly accepted definitions of things that just aren't true. Such as:
1. Ukraine's borders were always as they were in 1991 when they left the USSR
2. Ukraine was always that way before the USSR came along
3. Ukraine was a maligned sub-Russian client state of the USSR
4. Ukraine has clean hands
Ukraine has been a historical area no different than any other European historical area - Germany, Spain, Italy... The borders have changed over the years and entire political units have left, returned, merged, divested, etc... over 1,000 years. Over time, Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania have been united. During the USSR time, Ukraine was an industrial heartland of the USSR as well as bread basket (even though they still couldn't feed themselves under the socialist model).
I don't agree with Putin's invasion and I fear that ethnic cleansing is a reality. That's terrible.
But why did we prioritize Ukraine over Afghanistan? Do we really have any more business supporting one over the other? Is either war really winnable? If the Taliban, a bunch of cave-dwelling shite-heals supported by certain Pakistani and Chinese benefactors, can rebound in weeks after our pullout, what does that say about Russia "losing" currently in Ukraine? After we cut off aid, how long will it take for an enemy nation with modern infrastructure and running water in most houses to rebound?
The moronically over-simplified "Russia bad Ukraine good forget Afghanistan thats (D)ifferent" explanation holds about as much water as every other lie the media is telling us.
But it ain't about the stories they lie to us, it's about the suburban "educated" eyeballs they sell to Nike, Coke, and Tide soap. We are the product.
This post was edited on 10/25/22 at 11:19 am
Posted on 10/25/22 at 11:19 am to RoosterCogburn585
Because Pooty man bad
Posted on 10/25/22 at 11:59 am to riccoar
quote:
But why is that the US' problem?
That is a valid and logical argument. And, I have some sympathy for it. We should NOT put boots on the ground, planes in the air, or ships on the waters of this war!
But, 2 points:
1- America (President Bill #metoo Clinton) promised American protection to Ukraine if they gave up the former Soviet nuclear missiles and bombs on their territory. Russia gave the same promise by the way!
2- Russia is an International evil force like North Korea or Iran. Reducing their war making ability, financial potential, and international prestige is worth something. Example perhaps Xi’s China will not invade Democratic Taiwan because the Soviet designed weapons are being shown to be crap by western designed ones.
Now there’s a limit on American wealth transfers. And that’s an excellent point to debate.
But blaming Ukraine for this war is bullshite!
Posted on 10/25/22 at 12:09 pm to RoosterCogburn585
Because propaganda is a powerful tool. The regular leftists believe we are benevolent and righteous for saving Ukraine.
If they could break through the propaganda, they'd understand that with our unlimited funding.... a war that should've ended in a week with limited casualties... has been dragged out and will continue to be dragged out indefinitely... with countless casualties.
The war is being used as a way to gain benefits for our elites, and as a means to politically posture. It is being used as a wedge issue. "If you don't support Ukraine unconditionally, then you are a Putin lover, and are a threat to our democracy!"
If they could break through the propaganda, they'd understand that with our unlimited funding.... a war that should've ended in a week with limited casualties... has been dragged out and will continue to be dragged out indefinitely... with countless casualties.
The war is being used as a way to gain benefits for our elites, and as a means to politically posture. It is being used as a wedge issue. "If you don't support Ukraine unconditionally, then you are a Putin lover, and are a threat to our democracy!"
Posted on 10/25/22 at 12:10 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
Why don’t y’all realize that Putin is the only one who can save us now?
Posted on 10/25/22 at 12:11 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
Putin invaded a sovereign nation 3 times. Georgia once and Ukraine twice
Therein lies the issue...with the invasions of Georgia and Crimea, did it affect your life? Other than the moral outage of one nation invading another, but did it a) increase the price of fuel, food, fertilizer, etc b) increase the amount of spending on the heels of massive spending due to a pandemic? c) increase the threat of nuclear weapons being used?
The ONLY difference between the first 2 invasions and this current one is that we are MASSIVELY involved. More than all other countries, combined. Moreso than the regional countries.
Whether or not you agree with supporting Ukraine or not, policies should be judged antiseptically, and if it is bad policy, then you have to change the policy...period.
This post was edited on 10/25/22 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 10/25/22 at 12:12 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
Now you can oppose helping Ukraine. You can even cheer for Putin’s Russia.
Am I allowed to be apathetic here and not give a crap what happens in Ukraine and still think Putin sucks, except when you compare him to the Turnip we have running this country?
The U.S. has no business being involved in Ukraine and Putin sucks...
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