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Message
re: We have nothing in common.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 4:58 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 9/25/19 at 4:58 pm to Korkstand
quote:
How many times have I said "path to citizenship" in this thread? How many democratic candidates talk about a "path to citizenship" in their immigration platforms? All of them, I'm pretty sure.
And who do you think they are primarily talking about giving a path to citizenship to, frickstick? Why yes, it’s the criminal illegals! 20 million or so of them! Because nobody is terribly concerned about those not already here.
quote:
But does anyone on the right want to talk about fixing the immigration process, or is it all just talk about punishment?
How can we talk about fixing the immigration process, when we don’t control our borders, frickstick? Wouldn’t that be a lot like a child making serious plans on how he is going to spend the millions of dollars he hasn’t earned?
quote:
My question was what is the perceived downside to an increase in legal immigration, to a conservative?
I have yet to hear a single conservative express reservations about merit based LEGAL immigration here, frickstick. And neither have you.
1
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:04 pm to wmr
quote:
It is beyond time to divide up and move on.
I dont disagree, but how would we accomplish this exactly?
I’m a left-leaning Moderate (i know that’s a dirty word in 2019) who lives in the South.. i’m far from the only one, yet we are greatly outnumbered.. i’ve also lived on the West Coast; i knew more dually-driving, country-music listening conservatives in California, Inland about an hour from the coast, than i ever knew growing up in Louisiana.. how do you divide those people from the Liberals on the coast? How can I separate myself from the Trump-lovers i’m surrounded by? Do we pick parts of the country and move there? I have a 93 year old grandma who hates Trump (true story)- how is she gonna up and move?
I just dont see how this would work.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:08 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
You've warped "open borders" into something that couldn't exist at all.
Using the dictionary definition of a term is "warping" it. You guys I swear.
quote:Controlling entry, documenting immigrants, deporting illegals (whether via tracking them down, or after they are arrested for something unrelated, or whatever), all equate to CONTROLLED borders, NOT OPEN borders. And again, if you want to name a couple candidates who do not want to control immigration and document immigrants, I'll be waiting.
You've basically argued that if everything you DO is in conflict with having effective borders, but SAY you aren't for open borders, then you aren't for open borders.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:10 pm to Korkstand
quote:
dictionary definition of a term
Oh, they don't like that around here. The definition of a term tends to shift depending on how they need it to be defined at any given point in the discussion.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:12 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I also don't see a big push for open borders nationally. Do you? A vocal minority, maybe?
What the frick have you been watching for the last few years?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:20 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Controlling entry, documenting immigrants, deporting illegals (whether via tracking them down, or after they are arrested for something unrelated, or whatever), all equate to CONTROLLED borders, NOT OPEN borders.
Sounds just like sanctuary cities and states created by you socialist democrats, doesn’t it? Tell me again how many socialist democrat candidates oppose sanctuary cities?
Once you ignore that, let’s talk about the criminal illegals who have been documented, deported, and held for deportation from sanctuary cities. How many criminal illegals have North Carolina socialist democrats turned loose again?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:26 pm to troyt37
quote:Yes, they are probably talking about the ones already here, working, contributing to society, etc. What's the point of imprisoning or deporting people whose only real crime is participating in our society and economy?
And who do you think they are primarily talking about giving a path to citizenship to, frickstick? Why yes, it’s the criminal illegals! 20 million or so of them!
quote:Because they go hand in hand! Why are so many here illegally? Because they can't afford to wait forever, the well-being of their families depends on it. As long as our country is better than Mexico, and as long as the path to citizenship is a long and winding road, and as long as employers keep paying illegals under the table, we WILL have a problem with illegal immigration. Clearly you are in favor of a brute force tactic that does nothing to cure the underlying problem.
How can we talk about fixing the immigration process, when we don’t control our borders, frickstick?
quote:I'm just saying maybe try focusing less on fighting the symptom forever and ever, and focus more on addressing the cause.
I have yet to hear a single conservative express reservations about merit based LEGAL immigration here, frickstick. And neither have you.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:38 pm to troyt37
quote:What?
Sounds just like sanctuary cities and states created by you socialist democrats, doesn’t it? Tell me again how many socialist democrat candidates oppose sanctuary cities?
Look, I don't feel strongly about sanctuary cities one way or the other. Simply living here undocumented is not a crime, and holding someone who is not suspected of a crime is not constitutional, as far as I am aware. So in a very real way, these cities are fighting against federal government overreach. If they are suspected of a crime, then they are held until ICE shows up, even in sanctuary cities. Link me if I'm wrong.
But I'm still not sure what the point of this tangent was.
quote:OK, talk.
Once you ignore that, let’s talk about the criminal illegals who have been documented, deported, and held for deportation from sanctuary cities. How many criminal illegals have North Carolina socialist democrats turned loose again?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:39 pm to Korkstand
quote:
What's the point of imprisoning or deporting people whose only real crime is participating in our society and economy?
Because they are criminals, here illegally, frickstick. If they were such model citizens, the American taxpayer wouldn’t be out 200 billion plus, supporting them every year, would they?
quote:
Because they go hand in hand! Why are so many here illegally? Because they can't afford to wait forever, the well-being of their families depends on it.
So many are here illegally because socialist democrats and socialist republicans have graciously offered the fruits of the labor of the American taxpayer to them, frickstick. Do you really think 20 million of them would be here if they couldn’t have the American taxpayer buying them food, healthcare, housing, and subsidies? You don’t really want me to go find the percentage of criminal illegals who are on public assistance, do you frickstick? You have a problem with employers paying them under the table, but not politicians handing them the fruits of American labor?
quote:
'm just saying maybe try focusing less on fighting the symptom forever and ever, and focus more on addressing the cause.
The cause is shitty socialist politicians. I work on it every time I step in the voting booth.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:42 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Simply living here undocumented is not a crime
Bzzzt. Wrong, frickstick. Try again. Try living in Mexico “undocumented” and see what it gets you. What? Prison?! Yeah, but surely they don’t separate you from your children, right frickstick?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:54 pm to Sweltering Chill
quote:
I dont disagree, but how would we accomplish this exactly? I’m a left-leaning Moderate (i know that’s a dirty word in 2019) who lives in the South.. i’m far from the only one, yet we are greatly outnumbered.. i’ve also lived on the West Coast; i knew more dually-driving, country-music listening conservatives in California, Inland about an hour from the coast, than i ever knew growing up in Louisiana.. how do you divide those people from the Liberals on the coast? How can I separate myself from the Trump-lovers i’m surrounded by? Do we pick parts of the country and move there? I have a 93 year old grandma who hates Trump (true story)- how is she gonna up and move? I just dont see how this would work.
Geographic division will not work, SC. We are not polarize re Ethnicity, but Ideology.
High Tech job loss is going to force the Right to become more 'redistributionist'...and common sense will force the Left to become less Idealistic.
As per this Thread - and countless others since Obama (of the which I have passionately opined in
) pledged to "fundamentally change this Nation"...the Reactionary Right has risen out of their stupor, and essentially...gunned up. IMHO, it will be up to the Right (their principled leadership) to open themselves to LEGITIMATE, 'redistributionist' Policy going forward (like we aren't already
) and seek a common sense, common ground with the honest folk on the (supposed) altruistic and mercy-principled Left. Our hardest hurdle will be averting the kind of anarchy that fanatics on either side of the Ideological spectrum might cause. With a snowballing effect becoming unstoppable. Shoot first...ask questions later. Katrina taught those of us on the outskirts of NO, a good lesson. Things could go 'Darwinian' within the space of a week.
A worthy challenge. A more than worthy reward. The sky is the limit, given High Tech.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 5:57 pm to wmr
Fine by me. Just stop asking the right to pay for everything the left wants.
Easy.
Easy.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 7:23 pm to Korkstand
quote:All of them except Tulsi
And again, if you want to name a couple candidates who do not want to control immigration
quote:
and document immigrants
Sleight of hand there.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 7:24 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Simply living here undocumented is not a crime
quote:What part of illegal do you not grasp?
If they are suspected of a crime
Posted on 9/25/19 at 7:38 pm to wmr
You are right. People who spend their time at the range, church, and work have nothing in common with those who spent their time at the mosque, gay bar, and drag queen story hour.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 8:11 pm to troyt37
quote:In your opinion, is illegal immigration a more serious crime than, say, shoplifting? How about auto theft? Assault? Murder? Honest question.
Because they are criminals, here illegally, frickstick.
quote:It's a lot easier to be a model citizen if you actually are a citizen. Also 200 billion is a lot cheaper than imprisoning them all, and less disruptive to the economy than deporting them all. By far the most economically logical thing to do is to improve the legal immigration process.
If they were such model citizens, the American taxpayer wouldn’t be out 200 billion plus, supporting them every year, would they?
quote:Hell yeah they would.
So many are here illegally because socialist democrats and socialist republicans have graciously offered the fruits of the labor of the American taxpayer to them, frickstick. Do you really think 20 million of them would be here if they couldn’t have the American taxpayer buying them food, healthcare, housing, and subsidies
quote:Actually, I would absolutely love it if you would do that! And while you're at it, see if you can figure out how these people manage to collect benefits without a SSN. Seems like quite a big and easily fixable loophole!
You don’t really want me to go find the percentage of criminal illegals who are on public assistance, do you frickstick?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 8:18 pm to troyt37
quote:It's a civil violation, not a crime that local law enforcement can detain someone for.
Bzzzt. Wrong, frickstick. Try again.
quote:Why is fricking Mexico the bar you're trying to reach? Is that the grand plan, to make the US as bad as fricking Mexico so they don't even want to come here anymore?
Try living in Mexico “undocumented” and see what it gets you. What? Prison?! Yeah, but surely they don’t separate you from your children, right frickstick?
Posted on 9/25/19 at 8:23 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Also 200 billion is a lot cheaper than imprisoning them all, and less disruptive to the economy than deporting them all.
No.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 8:26 pm to ShortyRob
quote:That's just flat out not true. If you're not willing to have an honest conversation, I'm done.quote:All of them except Tulsi
And again, if you want to name a couple candidates who do not want to control immigration
quote:"Sleight of hand"? There are only two basic components to immigration control: physical access control, and documentation for those allowed in. Both of those components have to be nonexistent to call it an "open border". That's just simply the definition of the term. To lump ANY of these dem candidates into that category, much less ALL of them, is completely dishonest. It's a scare tactic.quote:Sleight of hand there.
and document immigrants
Posted on 9/25/19 at 8:28 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:Care to elaborate?quote:No.
Also 200 billion is a lot cheaper than imprisoning them all, and less disruptive to the economy than deporting them all.
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